Helpful ReplyQuestion: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project.

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AdrianNewington
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2016/08/22 00:12:54 (permalink)

Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project.

Hi,
 
I get my Bass, Synth's & Strings from my Yamaha S30 Synth, and I have found that when recording the audio playback back into the DAW, that they seem to have a nicer placement within the mix when they are captured as stereo. They seem to be in a realistic space behind the main Vocal and guitars or main instrument. (Even a Bass which still remains in the centre). I have a small reverb activated on the synth, but it is definitely not intrusive or dominant in anyway. NOTE: I still use PAN when required for added atmosphere and placement within the sonic space depending on what voice I am recording.
 
What are your thoughts on the use of a stereo track?
 
TIA
Adrian
 

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#1
John
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/22 01:02:13 (permalink)
Things that  produce stereo should be recorded in stereo. Things that produce mono should be recorded in mono.  

Best
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#2
Anderton
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/22 02:15:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dcumpian 2016/08/22 08:27:12
...bearing in mind that mono things sometimes play in an acoustic environment, which can be good to capture in stereo.
 
There's very little I don't record as stereo tracks these days, but then again, I use Channel Tools to pan the right and left independently so I'm not limited to a Balance control.

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dcumpian
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/22 08:07:23 (permalink)
What Craig said. If the sound in stereo gives a sense of placement, you'll want to capture that in stereo.
 
Regards,
Dan

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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/22 08:20:59 (permalink)
I'm starting to learn that Pan Laws are a very interesting area to experiment with on a track to track basis when using stereo tracks within a project ... 
Before I used Pan Laws  I felt I was pushing a lot of stuff around the sonic stage for no reason .
I had to do drastic EQ adjustments just to have some of the stereo tracks sit well in a mix with each other  ...
On a track to track basis applying Pan Law 's such as , Linear , - 6 dB center , - 4.4 dB center , -3.0dB center , and - 2.5 dB center  can have very interesting results within a songs sonic stage ...
I have been messing around with some of those settings while moving my individual track pan pots around.
 
interesting stuff for sure ...
Kenny

                   
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#5
batsbrew
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/22 16:15:51 (permalink)
i only ever record in mono.
 
even my 'overheads' are mono and panned.
 
if i want stereo 'effect', i use a tailored reverb (panned) or stereo slapback.
 
on rare occassion, i'll do stereo overheads, or a stereo mic pair (usually for acoustic guitar, a leslie cab, that kind of thing)
 
 
it's wonderful to capture the sound of an excellent recording space..
and no better way to do that than with several techniques of stereo recording..
(AB, X-Y, ORTF, MS, blumlein)
X-Y is my favorite, just cuz it's the easiest.

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#6
rumleymusic
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/23 01:27:15 (permalink)
I use stereo tracks for stereo microphone pairs only.  ORTF, AB, MS, NOS (God forbid, XY) etc., these are designed to be panned hard left and right with no alteration in post.  I always record acoustic instruments in stereo, you have to in the classical field, it is called the main pair and it is the starting point for all professional acoustic recording (throwing down the gauntlet on that one I bet).  
 
I do supplement with many other microphones for spots and supports, those are in mono so I can easily pan them in the stereo field without a competing stereo image.  For instance, when I record an orchestra, I will use a stereo pair in front of the entire group as the main pickup, but I usually have a couple microphones spaced evenly for the woodwinds and brass.  Those are recorded on mono tracks because I might not want them panned 100% either way or may need to adjust levels independently.  This is a pain in a stereo track, but a quick, basic task in mono.  
 
It really is as simple as counting to two.  If you use one microphone, use a mono track, if you use a matched stereo pair, use a stereo track.  Stereo synths, use stereo, a mono sample, use mono.  It is a no-brainer. 
 
The only exception would be a couple stereo plugins which may glitch on a mono track, but many of those have a mono version of the plugin.  Whatever works in that case.
 

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#7
Jeff Evans
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/23 15:49:42 (permalink)
This topic is also going in another thread.
 
I think with synths you can use a similar approach to acoustic instruments.  For example if the synth is doing a bass sound then yes it may not be a great idea to record a really wide stereo patch onto a stereo track.  You also need to investigate what effects are being used also on say a bass patch.  It may sound better with any modulation widening effects removed for example and just recorded onto a mono track. Some synths like the Juno 106 are basically mono except for one effect right at the end of the chain. But it is well worth recording the chorus effect. It is quite unique. As was the ensemble effect in the Roland JP4.
 
With synth lead sounds this may also apply but then again some leads may sound killer in stereo and it may be well worth recording them that way too.
 
With mid range sounds eg pads etc then stereo options may be best for sure.  Not all synths rely on modulation effects either in order to create a wide sound.  Some use the concept of stacking say 4 or 6 (or 32 in the case of the new Kurzweils) layers in order to create the stereo imaging.  Layers are panned here there and everywhere.  (in Emulators for example individual voices/layers can be panned or modulated in pan position to create the most sublime effects)
 
It would be seriously silly to ignore an effect like this and record in mono.  You would just be missing out on a beautiful wide sound for no good reason.
 
Don't forget you can always record in stereo and use a plugin like Channel Tools to narrow things down or bring back to mono later on if you feel the need. And if things don’t sum well here then you can try manipulating the phase of one side of the stereo while summing to mono. There will be a point where L and R will sum and still sound robust.
 
Like all things use your ears and judge. If a synth sound sounds magnificent in stereo, record it that way.
 
Also you can mix multiple stereo synth outputs to create huge wide effects.  What you don't do in these cases is pan every stereo synth output to hard L and hard R.  A good trick is to pan some that way but others from hard L to C and others from C to hard right. Others from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock for example.  There are many ways to combine multiple stereo synth sources.
 
 

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codamedia
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/23 18:24:07 (permalink)
Anderton
There's very little I don't record as stereo tracks these days, but then again, I use Channel Tools to pan the right and left independently so I'm not limited to a Balance control.



I tend to lean the opposite way and record everything in mono. If it's a stereo part (ie: synth, piano with two mics, acoustic with two mics, overheads, etc...) they get recorded on two separated mono tracks labeled left/right. 100% control of panning without the need of channel tools. If I want to share EQ and/or FX I'll just buss them.
 
It's just a work flow I am more comfortable with but next year I may feel differently

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bitflipper
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/23 23:16:15 (permalink)
Count me in the mono-by-default camp. Reserve stereo for things that truly need it, such as recording acoustical and vocal ensembles. I don't like to have more than 3 stereo tracks in a project because contrary to intuition, too many stereo tracks can make the full mix sound LESS stereophonic, not more.


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Jeff Evans
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/24 00:07:47 (permalink)
When you are adding in multiple stereo sources eg 6 for example there are some tactics that work.  One approach is that each stereo pair only occupies say a 30 degree chunk of its width and the 6 of them are placed around the L R 180 degree pan space like 6 mono sources that are around 30 degree wide though each.
 
The parts near the middle are best for more important things that are there more often. The wider parts for more sparsely placed material.  You can still enjoy a pretty wide image this way with multiple stereo sources.
 
It also depends on how they step on each other playing wise in the arrangement.  Parts that interweave and don’t play at the same time can enjoy a wider stereo return.  Layers are good with narrower widths placed in 3 or 4 sections across the full L R 180 degree width. Having full panning of both L and R sides is important to experiment.  Automating things around slowly can add a sublime movement to the whole soundscape.
 

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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/24 05:35:14 (permalink)
codamedia
Anderton
There's very little I don't record as stereo tracks these days, but then again, I use Channel Tools to pan the right and left independently so I'm not limited to a Balance control.



I tend to lean the opposite way and record everything in mono. If it's a stereo part (ie: synth, piano with two mics, acoustic with two mics, overheads, etc...) they get recorded on two separated mono tracks labeled left/right. 100% control of panning without the need of channel tools. If I want to share EQ and/or FX I'll just buss them.
 
It's just a work flow I am more comfortable with but next year I may feel differently




I prefer stereo tracks for all non-true mono sources and use plugs like WAVES S1 to place them where I want them and get them as narrow as I need them. 
 
Using double-mono for stereo as described here IMHO causes too much overhead in terms of routing and over complicates the setup (becomes error-prone) i.e. I want to EQ the stereo guitar track and not a guitar buss (or aux track) that feeds another bus (with all guitars) that feeds master bus etc.

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#12
dcumpian
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/24 08:05:45 (permalink)
And there you have it...there is no one right way.
 
Dan

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glennstanton
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/24 10:30:48 (permalink)
i've often use a 2.1 setup (not using LFE channel though) on a surround master buss to allow me a lot of flexibility for setting width on stereo tracks (which may start as mono but using stereo effects etc like modulation etc) as well as placement. allows fine tuning of the overall delay and reverb busses as well...

-- Glenn
 
 
 
 
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/25 13:17:39 (permalink)
glennstanton
i've often use a 2.1 setup (not using LFE channel though) on a surround master buss to allow me a lot of flexibility for setting width on stereo tracks (which may start as mono but using stereo effects etc like modulation etc) as well as placement. allows fine tuning of the overall delay and reverb busses as well...




now this is an interesting idea. never touched the surround options. never thought of anything like that ... what are the drawbacks???

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patm300e
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/25 13:25:58 (permalink)
bitflipper
Count me in the mono-by-default camp. Reserve stereo for things that truly need it, such as recording acoustical and vocal ensembles. I don't like to have more than 3 stereo tracks in a project because contrary to intuition, too many stereo tracks can make the full mix sound LESS stereophonic, not more.



I agree totally...If the degree of separation in each stereo source is not the same the end result may be surprisingly narrow.

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Jeff Evans
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/25 15:04:29 (permalink)
Then you become creative in making them sound wide again. Three is the minimum number of anything you need to create something seemingly complex. eg three narrow stereo sources can be panned in a way as to make the end result very wide.  One possible approach here is the first stereo source panned say 8 o clock 12 o clock the second 10 o clock 2 o clock and the third 12 o clock and 4 o clock.  The more different the parts are, the wider things will seem.
 
Also even when you take panning synths such as this and use something like panagement:
 
https://www.auburnsounds.com/products/Panagement.html
 
In conjunction with a reverb the forward back option steps in giving the centre panned stereo image even more depth.
 
There are many processes than can really widen an already stereo synth patch too.  Like 3 pads for example being layered.  If some of the pads are not that wide to begin with, then you can take steps to create a much wider image.  I got good at this working with some early polyphonic super analog synths of the past that had only one mono output.  I developed techniques for turning those sounds into wide stereo patches instead. When you get good at this widening an already even slightly stereo image is easy.  There are also some great plugins around that really specializse in it.
 

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glennstanton
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Re: Question: The use of Stereo Tracks within a Project. 2016/08/26 11:51:00 (permalink)
Rob[atSound-Rehab]
glennstanton
i've often use a 2.1 setup...

now this is an interesting idea. never touched the surround options. never thought of anything like that ... what are the drawbacks???



no drawbacks per se but does require more attention to detail since it's not going to simply be LRC given you can set width, depth, and angle (including outside of 90 deg or 120 deg etc) - so watching phase esp for outside placement is important - as always, mix initially with mono monitoring :-)

-- Glenn
 
 
 
 
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