djjhart@aol.com
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Question about 64-bit Double Precision Engine
When Ever I seen 64 bit anything I was always under the impression it had to do with 64 bit OS.. So I never took any interest in it.. Never new to recently the option of 64-bit Double Precision had nothing to do with 64 bit Os.. And in fact it should be checked off in your Options.. ( This could be a subject where it would be good to discuss in the New Get started Forum) As to how you should set up your Options.. Ok Now to my question. Let say I record a clip from a Vsti, Now I want to bounce it to a Track , In the dialog box, Should I click the 64 bit Double Engine, or should I only do it as an Export ,(note I have it checked off in Options). I have been bouncing down to tracks without any dithering or 64 bit enable , I dont do my own mastering so I leave the projects at 24 bit 44k and no dithering when I export , but I click 64 bit double precision only at the end. Is This Correct? Thanks John.
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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Sijel
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Re:Question about 64-bit Double Precision Engine
2010/08/13 14:32:44
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Why are you turning off the 64bit engine? (I always leave mine ON.) Are you running into some CPU issues or some other limit where you need to turn it off? It gives better sound and more headroom since the intermediary results of internal calculations for reverb, compressors and other mixing algorithms don't get truncated to fewer bits (which leads to lower sound quality). If you don't believe me, here's the official CW word on this: http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/reader.aspx?ID=2005278 Hope this helps!
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re:Question about 64-bit Double Precision Engine
2010/08/13 14:36:43
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your not understanding ..I have it checked off In Options and I dont change that.. I know that .. I was asking when you bounce down individual tracks to audio.. such as a vsti.. When you bounce to tracks or anything up comes a dialog box with a bunch of settings.. My question was , Should I check the box for 64bit when I bounce to tracks... In options its already checked..Thanks JOhn
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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John
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Re:Question about 64-bit Double Precision Engine
2010/08/13 14:57:42
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LOL it should be checked on. LOL When you say checked off one thinks you turned it off. Though the use of off is in fact correct in this context. One reason we are here on this forum is to learn about these things and to pass them on to others. This was well discussed when the 64 bit audio engine first appeared. Then there was far less confusion due mostly to how few had a 64 bit system. Now things have changed greatly and we see confusion about plugins and audio engines and internal processing. Its hard, I believe, to be up on everything unless you spend a lot of time reading.
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re:Question about 64-bit Double Precision Engine
2010/08/13 15:08:01
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Thanks John.. If I understand you correct , your saying when I bounce a Vsti track down to audio, In the dialog box I am to check of 64 bit , no dithering , I use the option "what I hear". reason why I was asking was because it it seems like it doing it twice once while bounce to tracks and then again at Export.. I was under the impression like dithering you only need to do it once.. So every individual bounce down needs to be checked off.
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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John
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Re:Question about 64-bit Double Precision Engine
2010/08/13 15:33:04
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OK I have it on for export. I also use dither because I always export to 24 bits. All my audio files are at 24 bits unless I am going to place them on a CD then I export to 16 bits with dither.
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jasonthurley
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Re:Question about 64-bit Double Precision Engine
2010/08/13 15:51:42
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it seems like it doing it twice once while bounce to tracks and then again at Export.. I believe it bounces them... then the second process is importing the new file... not exporting twice.
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dmbaer
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Re:Question about 64-bit Double Precision Engine
2010/08/13 15:52:17
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Sijel Why are you turning off the 64bit engine? (I always leave mine ON.) Are you running into some CPU issues or some other limit where you need to turn it off? It gives better sound and more headroom since the intermediary results of internal calculations for reverb, compressors and other mixing algorithms don't get truncated to fewer bits (which leads to lower sound quality). If you don't believe me, here's the official CW word on this: http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/reader.aspx?ID=2005278 OK, now I'm confused. We are talking about 64-bit floating point as opposed to 32-bit floating point, are we not? Certainly that's going to provide better precision. But more headroom? Less chance of clipping? How do you run out of head room (in any practical situation) with floating point? Nevertheless, here's what the cakewalk link above has to say: "The 64-bit Double Precision Engine provides greater resolution, meaning more accurate audio reproduction and more headroom. You'll especially notice the benefits of the 64-bit Double Precision Engine when working in large projects containing many audio tracks and plugs-ins. Your chances of clipping will be significantly reduced." I'm pretty sure this has been discussed here before and the consensus was that with either single or double length floating point, clipping was not going to be an issue until of course you convert back to binary. Even with that conversion, coming from double length is not going to give you a reduced amount of clipping compared to coming from single length, right?
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jasonthurley
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Re:Question about 64-bit Double Precision Engine
2010/08/13 15:53:50
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About your question... I would use the 64 bit engine while bouncing if I am using the 64 bit engine to mix.... as you say "What i am hearing" is what you want to bounce so if you are not using 64 bit engine I wouldn't use it on the bounce or it will alter "What you would hear" Am I mistaken?
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jasonthurley
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Re:Question about 64-bit Double Precision Engine
2010/08/13 15:57:51
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64 bit gives you more data to be able to use which allows for more headroom.... you are limited based on data steam size and 32 bit is limited to a certain headroom.. it is a mathematical calculation and it does make sense thinking of it in that way, however I believe I answered the original question above.... unless I am somehow mistaken, which does hapen from time to time...
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re:Question about 64-bit Double Precision Engine
2010/08/13 16:16:16
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Thanks Jason .. You did Answered it...So in Options , Its checked off and left alone. And when I bounce individual tracks to audio. I will Check it off in the pop up box. and when I export as audio as a whole song I will check it off again. Dithering wont be checked at all anywhere unless Im converting to 16 bit for cd..and that would be done as the last possible step, By the mastering Engineer, So for me everything will remain at 24bit no dithering .and sent to the mastering Engineer and left up to him to dither..But double precision engine will be check off every time I do any bounce. Thanks ..
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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Sijel
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Re:Question about 64-bit Double Precision Engine
2010/08/13 17:39:14
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I will Check it off in the pop up box There you go again! LOL Your statement is ambiguous. I think you mean to say you will check it ON...
Microsoft Surface Book w/ Surface dock, dual 24-inch HD displays, Sonar Platinum, THD 4, GuitarRig, Amplitube, (Kontakt4), Garritan PO, Trillian Bass 1.3, Roland Octa-Capture, Waves Gold & various Waves, PSP and T-Racks plugins.KRK Rokit6, Lefty Guitars & Bass, racks/pedals galore and many other fun things.
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dmbaer
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Re:Question about 64-bit Double Precision Engine
2010/08/13 18:19:10
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jasonthurley 64 bit gives you more data to be able to use which allows for more headroom 32-bit float gives you a maximum number that is astromically large. Yes, 64-bit allows for an even larger number (3 extra bits in the exponent, I believe). But the maximum 32-bit value is so large that clipping would be next to impossible to achieve. I'm not talking about accuracy. I'm talking about clipping where level of the signal at some instant is so large that the number format is incapable of representing it. If we define headroom as difference between a signal level and the maximum achievalble before clipping is encountered, even 32-bit floating has inifinite headroom in practical terms. I'm having a hard time seeing the validity of CW's assertion that clipping can be less of a problem or that there's more headroom with 64-bit than with 32-bit if it's floating point we're talking about, which I think we are.
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jcatena
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Re:Question about 64-bit Double Precision Engine
2010/08/13 19:04:49
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Jose Catena DIGIWAVES, S.L.
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re:Question about 64-bit Double Precision Engine
2010/08/13 19:40:11
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There you go again! LOL Your statement is ambiguous. I think you mean to say you will check it ON...
LOL I did say that LOL... Like a check list and check it off yeahhhhh thats it...
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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