SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/02 20:08:02
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Listen to some Stranglers. Generally speaking, the keyboard and the bass both play a far more up front part of the sound than the guitar. And over the course of 17 albums, I'd imagine Dave Greenfield's keys solos are more numerous than the guitar solos. Check out the stunning solo passage in the middle of this cover of Walk On By (incidentally the best cover song of all time). First part is the keyboard solo (1:24), played over an ever increasingly busy bass part. Then the release into the guitar solo is perfect (3.27). Toward the end of the solo, the keys come back to share the lead work.
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craigb
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/02 20:49:47
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Well, I for one enjoyed that! Thanks Steve.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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soens
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 04:21:43
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Karyn
Serenarules In other words, why do we have to do the horns, strings, and sound effects all the time.
Simple answer.. Because you CAN.
Up until the late '70s if you wanted a convincing horn section on your track you had to hire a horn section. Guitars always sounded like guitars, pianos like pianos, but suddenly in the '80s with half decent samplers it was possible to get half decent emulations of all sorts of sounds from a keyboard (but ironically, not piano...)
... or drums. Still looking for those 2.
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craigb
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 04:52:34
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The kazoo emulation is a bit lacking as well.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 08:22:08
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I was going to chime in with my 2 cents but it's all been said and more.
But... that won't stop me..... Embrace your obscurity on the stage. Be the "Swiss army knife" (as Beagle put it) of the band. You play the strings and horns because quite matter of factly, no one else can do it. Drums, guitars, and bass certainly can't. So you play it. It's not the glamorous life, but there's a lot to be said for being able to walk around the venue or down the street without being mobbed by adoring fans or chased by paparazzi. (not that I would know how that is) If you want to be famous..... get the chops and skills to be among the Rick Wakemans, and the Elton Johns, and the Liberace's of the world. Really if you look at it realistically, even with guitarists and drummers and bassists, the same thing holds true. Only a relative few really are recognizable from their playing styles considering how many there are. Eddy, Steve, Jimi, etc.... and it's only because they have earned that esteemed place through their skills and chops.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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craigb
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 09:58:38
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Yep, there can be only one Nigel Tufnel!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 10:07:59
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craigb Well, I for one enjoyed that! Thanks Steve. 
I'll email you a few Stranglers suggestions when I get home later mate.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 10:07:59
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craigb
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 10:11:03
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I DO have a lot from them (and they're alter-ego, the Purple Helmets), but that was a particularly good choice to post!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 10:12:59
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Ah good, the man knows his music, and it saves me an email
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Metaphasic
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 11:18:10
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I'd like to thank all who gave opinion, comments and suggestions in this thread. It has been incredibly helpful. I have a further question though, and am unsure as to whether or not it deserves it's own thread. So I'll just continue here. For 34 years I have played a certain way. I learned to play (guitar, bass and keys) by emulating my favorite band, A Flock of Seagulls. If you aren't familiar with them, I would suggest looking up a few videos on YouTube. For those that are, the overall arrangements are comprised of sustained legato pads, rudimentary bass lines, and simple guitar hooks. They typically stayed within a certain chord for a few measures before switching to the next. No passage was every very complex or faster than 1/8th notes. In the end, anybody with half a brain could learn their songs.
The problem is that, as an adult, I want to expand and get better, so I can play such things as Sledgehammer or Take on Me. Things of that nature. Therein lays the problem. Neither my mind, nor body, thinks this way. While that might seem like an odd statement and be hard to comprehend, it is the only way I can describe it.
Part of the problem is that I do not have a sequencer outside of SONAR and no, I can not afford one. My general mindset is that I do not like recording something I can not do live, and so, have never invested in a portable sequencer. I may not be the best, or even average, as a player, but at least I'm not lazy.
During the seven years since my stroke and onset of arthritis, I have adopted a set of finger exercises to increase my accuracy and speed. But I seem to have reached my threshold. I will keep doing them of course, but I am not sure it will make much difference.
This style of writing music is what I refer to as "block" writing. In other words, you stay within a certain block or chord, whereas typical music may change chords several times in one measure.
I have sat down, just as an exercise, and tried writing something that sounded like something Justin Bieber might sing (as well as other artists). The result always end up sounding like poo, or somehow migrates back to my usual fare. If I had started following the greats when I was younger, I might be a lot more free now. For example, if I had learned Van Halen songs early, I would be a lot better guitarist I think. The same goes for other instruments. As it stands though, I now have 34 years of programming and muscle memory to undo.
The question is; how do I break free from this musical programming I have allowed myself to fall into?
Sincerely, Drew
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 11:43:08
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My musical heros were Keith Emerson, Jon Lord, Rick Wakeman, Dave Greenslade, Thijs van Leer, Blue Weaver, Tony Banks and John Hawken, all were in bands were keyboards were prominent in the music and all had a unique style. Its pretty hard to have a reconisable style if all you are doing is playing pads and vamps. One contempory player that stands out is Çağri Tozluoğlu of Karnataka, probably because of his Turkish heratage and the sometimes oriental style of his playing. Jonathan Edwards of Panic Room also has some unique flourishes. On Panic Room's audatious cover of ELP's ****es Crystal it could have been no one else playing that Rhodes! I think players that concentrate on either Piano or Organ for the most part will have a more recognisable technique but that is not a given.
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jamesg1213
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 12:13:13
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2016/06/04 13:56:54
Serenarules
The question is; how do I break free from this musical programming I have allowed myself to fall into?
This might sound a bit harsh, but maybe stop listening to music from such a narrow genre range. Expand your horizons a bit. Don't try and sound like Flock of Seagulls, AHA, Depeche Mode, or any of your favourite '80's bands, they've been and gone. Write something that takes the good parts of those styles, but moves it on a bit. I'm guessing you may have liked Japan back then, they were pretty synth heavy. Have a listen to how they progressed afterwards, David Syvian's solo stuff is worth investigating, and Richard Barbieri's career after Japan is really interesting especially the albums he did with 'H' from Marillion, and his work with Porcupine Tree. He's a synth player who stretches the boundaries a bit, highly atmospheric and textured sounds.
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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bapu
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 12:59:22
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☄ Helpfulby Beagle 2016/06/03 16:02:44
Dare I say it? Band In A Box. There, I said it.
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craigb
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 13:26:17
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A Flock of Seagulls... My "guilty favorite" band!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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bayoubill
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 13:30:36
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I've tried to answer this Fred but I keep falling asleep before I can read it
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slartabartfast
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 13:55:28
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Serenarules Part of the problem is that I do not have a sequencer outside of SONAR and no, I can not afford one.
I don't either. The unlimited MIDI tracks in Sonar represent one of the most powerful and easy to use linear sequencers available. I never used the included step sequencer, but it looks to be a good enough module to do the kind of loop composition that is popular among the kids today. If you have Sonar, you have everything you need to control real world synths/keyboards, softsynths, and sample players.
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Voda La Void
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/03 15:06:22
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Serenarules The question is; how do I break free from this musical programming I have allowed myself to fall into?
Sincerely, Drew
My two cents here...try writing from the head, not from the instrument. Honestly, all of my writing was more creative when I started from the head. Just driving around, maybe a coffee run or something, a riff or musical thingy would just pop in my head and I'm singing inside my head and arranging parts. Then when I got home I'd pick up the guitar or something and figure out what was composed up there in the gray matter. Now I do way more writing from the instrument, and each has its pros and cons - but for your issue, head writing may be a jump start. When you're writing from the instrument you're limited to what your extremities can do in relation and coordination to your creative brainstorm - you may not think to do some fast triplet or an awkward combination of notes that sound killer - it doesn't occur to you in that mode. But when you're head writing *everything* is easy. There is nothing "weird" or "too difficult" to perform when it's in your head so your creativity just flows freely. You're not limited to your abilities or your usual tendencies because you're operating in an unlimited space. Then, you sh!t yourself trying to figure out how to play what was in your head - and voila, you're now playing completely differently, pushing yourself and your abilities.
Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
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Metaphasic
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/04 09:19:02
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I think there is something even more basic than any of what has been recently discussed that I am missing. What would you say if I told that that no song ever has made me cry, or experience extreme happiness? When I write, it's more like a technical exercise, than something that comes from inside. I feel very little when I write or play. This is, of course, partially due to the fact that I absolutely must look at my hands and instrument while playing and must be constantly aware of what I've already played as well as what is coming up. Everything must be planned. My lyrics often fall short of blah simply because I really don't have anything to say.
On the point about being tone deaf. This is how I would describe it. You know how singers will use those pitch pipe things to center themselves before singing a song? I can't do that. I can not hear a note and hit it right away. I don't even come close. Sometimes, it's three or four whole tones off. If one were to play two notes in succession, I can tell they were different notes, but not the exact interval. I really can't explain what goes on in my mind, but I just seem to be stuck in limbo. It's one thing to say "play from the heart" and quite another to actually do it when there isn't anything there. I want to break away from this, and play with freedom and expressiveness, but after 34 years, I still haven't found the path, let alone actually do it.
Hopefully this made a little more sense than previous posts. I'm still open for all comments and suggestions.
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Voda La Void
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/04 10:31:14
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Serenarules I think there is something even more basic than any of what has been recently discussed that I am missing. What would you say if I told that that no song ever has made me cry, or experience extreme happiness? When I write, it's more like a technical exercise, than something that comes from inside. I feel very little when I write or play. This is, of course, partially due to the fact that I absolutely must look at my hands and instrument while playing and must be constantly aware of what I've already played as well as what is coming up. Everything must be planned. My lyrics often fall short of blah simply because I really don't have anything to say.
I can't relate to that at all. Everything makes me cry, ha ha. I can't get through two verses of Sound of Silence before I tear up - every damn time. I have to ask what draws you to music then, in the first place, if you feel very little from it?
Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
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Metaphasic
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/04 10:39:44
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To be honest... As an introverted teen, it was a way for me to interact with and gain the admiration of those I couldn't talk to in person. I've been doing it so long now I fear the emptiness of quitting.
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spacey
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/04 10:46:36
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Drew, many years ago I informed my music teacher that I was going to start giving private lessons at a local music store. One of things he told me, " you're going to get a student that you know will never be a guitarist and you must never tell them". Even though there are so many things in life to enjoy I think many people miss their calling simply because it's hard to get experience with them all. I could be a natural at something and just not know it. I guess because I think that way I've never had a problem with "moving along" even when I was loving doing something that I knew was just a struggle. Costing me time and money for frustrations and aggravations. An example for you that many here know is true- I became frustrated with recording because the computers and software weren't aligned to perform (although that has changed now) and that was topped off with changes...all the time something would change...drivers, OS, updates etc. and new problems to the point that I couldn't record because I'd get so pissed I'd just throw the computer in the trash for relief. So...I found something else to do. I spent months reading and learning about building guitars. Built one with minimum tools to get my feet wet and see if swimming might be possible. The results amazed me so I invested more money than building would ever return for a new found "love". Of course I continued to deal with recording but it was much easier...time helped level the playing field with the processing power and programs and things started to work without pulling teeth to get something done. You don't have to stop trying but I think it's good to have a wide playing field full of possibilities. Not sure if these words are good ones for you but...morning coffee and no reason not to offer them to you.
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Metaphasic
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/04 11:11:34
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Thanks. The more I think about all this, the more I think I probably should move on. I used to enjoy listening to music, but once I started playing, it became work.
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craigb
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/04 13:07:12
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Just popped in to say thanks to Serenarules and Spacey for their posts above. I think others who usually remain silent and wonder if there's something wrong with themselves will get a lot out of hearing that others are in a similar boat. I love listening to music, but often find myself being too left brained and turning music creation into a logic exercise. This can create the same situation that Serenarules mentioned. But, other times, I can really get into something I'm playing though I seriously lack the ability to translate it to the fingers. That said, sometimes I play back some small portion of what I recorded and wonder "How the hell did I do that???" LOL. Of course, I mainly play for myself and actually don't like it when people say "Play something for us!" Unless I have everything planned out (or start day dreaming while continuing to play), things just don't work for me.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Metaphasic
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/04 13:44:42
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That's it exactly. When I try to right brain things, I come up blank.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/04 13:49:03
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Try mixing it up a bit. Mash different genres together and see what you come up with. For instance, here's some 'progressive punk':
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michaelhanson
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/04 14:18:56
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If there was a style of music that I wanted to sound like, I would start listening to that band/artist/style all of the time; let it become programmed in the brain. I would probably take some time away from music to let my head recharge itself. Maybe a couple of weeks or a month. Come back fresh. Drink a glass of wine and let the inner creativity come out. What comes out is probably going to be your style, but not exactly what you wish it to be. Embrace your style. Look for the things that seem to work, in your style and play off of those things. A lot of our influences have developed over a life time. We still each sound unique, however. Collaborations are another thing you can do, to change your sound. Work with someone/ people who has/have similar tastes, but a different sound or writing style. It pushes you to perform. You naturally sound different, when mixed with other band mates.
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spacey
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/04 15:48:38
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You're welcome Craig and Drew. It's a good thing about the forum -getting many different aspects. The best thing that ever happened to me was putting music on a side-burner in 1986. I began playing guitar again for the same reason I started...just love holding and playing a guitar. Nice not to have unobtainable goals to disrupt it. Hindsight shows me that I could have done it sooner and there would have been other major benefits. It simply worked out that there are many things I enjoy doing and studying until I become very proficient at. Makes it easy to discard the ones that "don't fit" for any reason. I don't waste my time trying to fix problems with things I don't understand or know that I can't. To easy to move along and enjoy something new and to put myself to the test and see how good I can get with it. State of mind can be very hard to deal with. Nice to have different thoughts to weight.
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Metaphasic
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Re: Question for ALL musicians!
2016/06/04 16:33:20
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I'm not sure if changing genres would make much difference. I am just too burned out. I'm going to take a few months off and see what happens.
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