ULTRABRA
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Question for ARC2 users
I've just set up ARC2 and the white line it generates (that's the fixed curve right?) is fairly flat but the is still a -3db dip at about 75hz.
What does it mean when there is still a dip in the corrected curve - is that frequency still going to be a problem? Why doesn't it flatten it out there too?
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KingsMix
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/11/25 09:46:21
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Yes,the white line is the corrections (after).
The Gold line is where your frequencies were before correction.
The green is actually the target (flat) Ideal that Arc is shooting for , so the white line dip is just to try to get it to the target (green) flat.
I usually shoot the room twice when setting up, takes a little time but worth it.
By the way are you following the diagram for shooting, that closely represents your room setup?
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ston
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/11/25 11:46:31
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I have a related question (one I've never been able to properly figure out) - where do you put you when taking the measurements? The mic is often where my head would be, so I usually duck below my desk when the measurements take place which kinda removes me from the audio picture. I'm not sure if that's the best thing to do or not..?
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KingsMix
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/11/25 12:10:32
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ston
I have a related question (one I've never been able to properly figure out) - where do you put you when taking the measurements? The mic is often where my head would be, so I usually duck below my desk when the measurements take place which kinda removes me from the audio picture. I'm not sure if that's the best thing to do or not..?
I have found the best results come from stepping out of the room completely. It gives you enough time before the test tones start for you to move away.
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KingsMix
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/11/25 12:10:38
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ston
I have a related question (one I've never been able to properly figure out) - where do you put you when taking the measurements? The mic is often where my head would be, so I usually duck below my desk when the measurements take place which kinda removes me from the audio picture. I'm not sure if that's the best thing to do or not..?
I have found the best results come from stepping out of the room completely. It gives you enough time before the test tones start for you to move away.
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ston
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/11/25 12:16:19
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Ta. I guess your bod will have a slight damping effect then when mixing etc. which probably isn't a bad thing.
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BobF
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/11/25 12:40:14
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I step back a few feet behind for each measurement.
I love ARC2, BTW. I did an 11 point setup for it at and around the sweet spot. It's like taking a wet blanket off of my monitors.
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batsbrew
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/11/25 12:41:49
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THERE are some room anomalies that the program just cannot solve,
and it also reads the limit of your monitors, and will not correct past there,
but it is possible to disable the automatic roll-off point detection by selecting Full Bass Range Correction mode.
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ston
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/11/25 13:00:09
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I'd not noticed that before; it was on by default for me, but the amount of difference it makes for my setup is minimal, especially compared with the example response curves shown in the manual.
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dmbaer
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/11/25 15:28:37
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ULTRABRA
What does it mean when there is still a dip in the corrected curve - is that frequency still going to be a problem? Why doesn't it flatten it out there too?
One important thing to be aware of is this. The line shows level adjustments. As I understand it, ARC also makes phase adjustments that, at low frequencies, can have a significant effect. There is no visible feedback on this. My displayed adjustments look contrary to the level adjustments that happen as I switch between enabled and disabled state. I'm pretty sure this is because of the not-shown phase adjustments.
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ChuckC
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/11/27 01:18:49
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I tried Arc2 for about year some time back. Never worked for me and my mixes were worse. Not bashing, I am glad it works for others. For me, I just had to take the time to learn my room and speakers and I am glad I did. I was able to go into a friends studio at his house, listen to two or three reference tracks, learn his room and help him with a problem mix. I am glad I learned "how" to learn a room. Can't take room correction everywhere with ya. Just my opinion. In other news (not sure if it's transferable) but I have an Arc2 system for sale! Cheap!
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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sharke
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/11/30 22:35:48
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dmbaer
ULTRABRA
What does it mean when there is still a dip in the corrected curve - is that frequency still going to be a problem? Why doesn't it flatten it out there too?
One important thing to be aware of is this. The line shows level adjustments. As I understand it, ARC also makes phase adjustments that, at low frequencies, can have a significant effect. There is no visible feedback on this. My displayed adjustments look contrary to the level adjustments that happen as I switch between enabled and disabled state. I'm pretty sure this is because of the not-shown phase adjustments.
If you listen to ARC2's output out of context (e.g. through headphones) you can hear the phase adjustments it makes very clearly. It will make a mono track sound stereo, although not in a good way. The low end widens right out.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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ULTRABRA
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/05 10:57:50
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Thanks for the replies.
I'm still a bit unsure though ... if I still have that dip at around 75hz, then ok, its an improvement on previous, but its still not near flat, so how can I still trust what I'm hearing? Do I need to find another room?
I did the room test twice, the 2nd time much more carefully, and the result was similar - in fact the more careful reading was worse, but the curves were similar shape.
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batsbrew
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/05 11:16:36
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but it is possible to disable the automatic roll-off point detection by selecting Full Bass Range Correction mode.
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ULTRABRA
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/06 10:36:34
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Yes, I did select the Full Bass Range Correction - although its not a roll off that's the issue, its a dip at the specific frequency 75hz.
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KingsMix
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/06 12:16:33
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Not to be facetious , but how does commercial material sound through it with the settings that ARC has chosen?
Would test it by playing some familiar commercial material through your system that you know the sound of.
Also it wont hurt to just go ahead an mix some material on it, as it is and see where the material lands sonic wise on playback outside your room.
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ston
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/06 12:31:02
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Just how much correction is the ARC system having to make? I have a similar dip, but this is because around the frequency of where the dip is, the room is changing between massive bass attenuation (absorption) and a massive bass boost (room modes); it is simply not possible for filters (and whatever time-domain correction the plugin is also performing) to perfectly correct the frequency balance due to the massive swing in room response around the frequency in question; the filters will interfere with each other. So, like many things, it is a compromise. Here's my ARC2 curves:  Before I started using ARC2, I made my own frequency-domain only correction, using a stack of 3x parametric EQ's and a channel tool, as follows:  This wasn't perfect, especially around the lower frequencies, but my point is that any attempt on my part to correct the frequency response around that area any further lead to the various filters interacting with each other to totally ruin the sound, so I had to compromise and achieve the best response I could. Honestly, the small dip around 75Hz in ARC2 is still a huge improvement compared to how the room sounded before and is easily corrected for mentally.
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Lynn
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/06 12:45:59
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I've had ARC2 for several years which has helped me learn my own speakers better. I find the most useful feature of ARC2 is the simulations of various speakers. This has helped immensely, especially the car stereo, boombox, and laptop emulations. I now have confidence that my mixes will sound good on those speakers in real life. The ARC2 in conjunction with my VRM box have changed nearly every aspect of my productions, and much time has been saved by not having to "test drive" my mixes on other systems so much.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/06 13:40:22
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I haven't used ARC in years (bought it long time ago) as it does not seem to do any good if you are familiar with your speakers and your (hopefully acoustically treated) room. If not, ARC will not save you either.
Just for the fun of it I gave it another go this summer and I did not like what it turned my reference tracks into ... anyone wants it? don't know if it's transferable but I won't use.
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ULTRABRA
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/06 15:43:59
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ston
Just how much correction is the ARC system having to make? I have a similar dip, but this is because around the frequency of where the dip is, the room is changing between massive bass attenuation (absorption) and a massive bass boost (room modes); it is simply not possible for filters (and whatever time-domain correction the plugin is also performing) to perfectly correct the frequency balance due to the massive swing in room response around the frequency in question; the filters will interfere with each other. So, like many things, it is a compromise.
Here's my ARC2 curves:
Honestly, the small dip around 75Hz in ARC2 is still a huge improvement compared to how the room sounded before and is easily corrected for mentally.
Mine looks quite similar to yours, except the orange curve dip is well below the -12 line, and the white line on the left is dipping to the first white line on the graph (-3db?) and on the right side to the 2nd white graph line (-6db?).
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hbarton
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/06 16:28:49
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batsbrew
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/06 16:34:02
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KingsMix
Not to be facetious , but how does commercial material sound through it with the settings that ARC has chosen?
Would test it by playing some familiar commercial material through your system that you know the sound of.
Also it wont hurt to just go ahead an mix some material on it, as it is and see where the material lands sonic wise on playback outside your room.
by my experience, it makes the playback sound much better, as the room has been somewhat corrected. it's about the same difference listening to my own mixes, with and without arc, as listening to my set of commercial songs in my 'reference' file that i a/b against......
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bapu
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/06 16:54:50
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☄ Helpfulby BobF 2016/12/06 21:55:36
ChuckC
I tried Arc2 for about year some time back. Never worked for me and my mixes were worse.
I wonder...... did you fail to turn off ARC 2 before exporting? It's a common mistake by noobs, especially if you load it on the 2bus. Just in case you didn't know, ARC 2 is for monitoring not exporting.
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ston
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/06 17:06:10
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ULTRABRA
Mine looks quite similar to yours, except the orange curve dip is well below the -12 line, and the white line on the left is dipping to the first white line on the graph (-3db?) and on the right side to the 2nd white graph line (-6db?).
Blimey, your room must be even worse than mine acoustically, and mine's pretty bad, being a very boxy smallish bedroom. Is there anything you can do to try to improve matters, e.g. speaker placement and mounting?
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sharke
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/07 00:26:27
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Here's my curves just out of interest - I have my monitors on a shelf 6 inches above my desk, and it's quite near a corner. They sound like crap without ARC but absolutely amazing with it. 
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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bapu
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/07 00:30:22
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I'm happy with my curves. Arc 2 that is:  If I recall I did 20 measurements.
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KingsMix
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/07 00:46:34
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batsbrew
KingsMix
Not to be facetious , but how does commercial material sound through it with the settings that ARC has chosen?
Would test it by playing some familiar commercial material through your system that you know the sound of.
Also it wont hurt to just go ahead an mix some material on it, as it is and see where the material lands sonic wise on playback outside your room.
by my experience, it makes the playback sound much better,
as the room has been somewhat corrected.
it's about the same difference listening to my own mixes, with and without arc,
as listening to my set of commercial songs in my 'reference' file that i a/b against......
Yeah BB, I agree. That comment was actually for the OP. ARC is actually one of my best investments.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/07 05:26:08
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/12/07 09:42:19
sharke
Here's my curves just out of interest - I have my monitors on a shelf 6 inches above my desk, and it's quite near a corner. They sound like crap without ARC but absolutely amazing with it.
the curves already show you're in a corner ... bapu
Arc 2 that is:
If I recall I did 20 measurements.
... and bapu is much closer to the center (of the universe) ... as always 
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bapu
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/07 09:43:19
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I am in a partially treated room. The walls are white muslin and quite padded. As they should be.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Question for ARC2 users
2016/12/07 12:05:44
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/12/07 12:42:44
bapu
I am in a partially treated room.
so am I ... mix desk chair + absorber  producer sofa behind mix desk ...  music is all about capturing the right spirit
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