That's my main concern. To get the full Priemier Suite you're looking at ~$2k.

sincere question...

Does Vegas do proxy resolution (aka ProRes) and file replacement on final output?

I haven't followed Vegas' dev but there was a time when it was tailored for miniDV rather than driving a scalable res system. Has it evolved to work with content captured at different resolutions?

For example; are people using Vegas with the Red camera?

best regards,
mike

So proxy editing isn't built into the core of the Vegas app?

Both Premiere and Final Cut come from the tradition of proxy editing and only for a brief period did desktop computer horse power and standards of the day match up for *native-resolution* editing. Now that hi res High Definition (not 35mBs HDV) is here many editors are back to using proxy workflows.

Editors are also encountering content that originates from a wider variety of sources than ever. So that requires the ability to gracefully deal with different formats and time scales. Final Cut seems to lead Premiere in this regard.

In the past that wasn't Vegas' strong point... is it strong in that regard now?

For some editors the grace, facility, and accuracy with which a program handles the various input formats becomes a priority.



If you are going to do any graphics you'll probably end up with Photoshop... I guess any image editor will do... but Photoshop is easy to use and pretty flexible.

If you work with Photoshop you'll enjoy the ability to drag a .psd into a video app and preserve layers for subsequent animation and effects... it's a huge time saver.


best regards,
mike

what app are you sing for that?

best,
mike

Can Vegas to what AE does as well with effects?

Taz,

After Effects is specialized for working in great detail on shorter video clips.

I can't speak for Rofl but usually one assembles the clips made in AE in another app like Vegas, Premiere or Final Cut. Comparing Vegas to After Effects is not a clear comparison however comparing Premiere, Final Cut and Vegas integration with After Effects projects IS a fair comparison.

best regards,
mike

I will be using SONAR for the music production side of things. The current goal is to edit music videos we will be shooting for the songs we have. Eventually we plan on creating short films and get more and more involved into video production. Since I already own a lot of Adobe's software, I'm leaning towards the Adobe suite. Overall it seems to provide all the tools necessary, but I'm still researching this.

Thanks again for everyone's suggestions. You have managed to confuse me even more (just kidding!!!).

I'd have to disagree that Vegas is more powerful "out of the box". What specific features are you talking about? I think there is some confusion. For the money Vegas is a full featured powerful video editing application but I have never found it to be more powerful than Premier as a stand alone application in any regards, but rather the other way around. Premier just happens to integrate well with some of Adobes other products and that's a plus.

I have played with Premiere and I have Premiere Elements. I found it had a lot of good things but not to the degree that Vegas does. Sorry if that is not how you see it. Plus Vegas supports my Mackie Control Premiere doesn't. Much of what Vegas does is through FX and is rather neat in how versatile that is. I do believe it is way more intuitive to use Vegas then is Premiere. But We have choices here and its good that we do.

Vegas Vegas Vegas! It's what I use, and I love it.

Post #18 this thread.

ORIGINAL: WDI

Vegas is definitely the best bang for the buck. However, I use Premier. Though you could probably create a similar looking project in either, Premier's tools are far superior IMO. I've also had a decent amount of exposure to Final Cut while taking classes at a university. Final Cut and Premier seem to be set up fairly similar. Vegas is definitely different, not that that's bad. Since Final Cut only works on a Mac, I won't mention it. As far as Avid is concerned, it has a great reputation, but I don't have any personal experience using Avid. So I'll just talk about Vegas and Premier.

It's been a while since I used Vegas so I could be wrong about some of these features...

In a Premier project a timeline is an object, you can have as many timelines as you want in a project and nest them. Therefore, you can easily break up a project into specific parts, each on their own timeline and just nest each of these parts into a final timeline, all in one project. This makes for a professional and easy workflow. All the timelines are available in tabs in the same project. I believe Vegas supports nesting of projects now, but the implementation to me seems very lacking in comparison. It means you have to work on each piece of the larger project using many smaller projects.

Both Vegas and Premier support key frames for manipulating parameter automation. However, Vegas's implementation totally blows in my opinion. They are difficult to work with and are totally unorganized.

Premier’s tool set is very organized and easy to use. For instance if you want to stretch a piece of video to fit into a specific time slot, just click the tool and drag the end of the clip into place. Done. It's very difficult to do some simple things like this in Vegas. By default clip looping is turned on in Vegas, which can make working with clips a pain, so in this instance you would have to create a subclip and guess at changing the playback speed to fit the clip. Almost impossible do as I mentioned with Premier.

I could go on about the list of tool comparisons but I don't want to try and think of all of them off the top of my head and I think you get the idea. It took me a while to come to these conclusions. It wasn't like I spent an hour using each program and determined I like Premier better. It was over years of using them.

Again, this is just my opinion and like I said, it's been a while since using Vegas so things may have changed considerably. Vegas is definitely a good program, and like I said the best bang for the buck. I personally like the tools in Premier. Also Premiers integration with the other Adobe products is very good, like in Adobe Creative Suite. However, it is very expensive and may not be necessary for what you need.

All that I'm saying is if your going to make generalized statements, at least try and back them up with substantial examples.

ORIGINAL: creynolds

I have used Avid for over 10 years as a professional TV editor.

Does that make you cool? That is not a substantial example! Please, only the facts!

So it makes you poor. That's too bad. LOL I'm just messing around.

The Vegas Pro 8 Workflow
The Vegas Pro 8 interface provides a fully customizable workspace for accomplishing a wide range of production requirements. Dock multiple windows and save layouts to fit certain tasks; nest Vegas Pro projects within the timeline, design and save keyboard commands, and use application scripting to automate repetitive tasks. System-wide media management produces maximum efficiency. Network rendering saves time by using multiple computers and networked drive arrays to render complex projects.* Vegas Pro software also supports 24p, HD and HDV editing.

Powerful Editing Tools
Efficiently edit and arrange events on the Vegas Pro timeline using drag-and-drop operations. Apply real-time effects, transitions, envelopes, color changes, reverse, time-stretching and motion effects. Expertly edit complex SD or HD long-form projects using mouse or keyboard trimming along with powerful ripple editing modes.

Real-Time Playback and Nondestructive Editing
Playback and edit video effects, transitions and composites on-the-fly without rendering while viewing each change instantly on external monitors in real-time. Vegas software takes advantage of the PC's processing power by caching complex processes or effects directly to RAM for smooth frame-rate playback and previews.

Insert I-Frames at markers
The MainConcept MPEG-2 encode supports I-frame insertion at timeline markers. By providing I-frames at timeline markers, a rendered file has precise chapter and navigation point placement for DVD Architect Pro4 software.

Flexible Window Docking
New in Vegas Pro 8 software are some radical advancements for customizing the layout and positioning of the traditional Vegas layout. The timeline can now be at the top or the bottom of the application. Docking window tabs can be at the top of bottom of the dock.

Enhanced Video Preview Options
View the Vegas timeline on both an internal monitor and an external device (or secondary display) simultaneously. Simultaneous preview provides editors working with clients in a studio environment to setup a professional viewing environment while preserving the editor's on-screen editing environment. Preview options provide solutions to common viewing requests, with auto-fit providing a maximum viewing effort for the space available.

Project Nesting
Nesting allows you to add a Vegas project (.veg) to the timeline and edit and apply effects the same as you would a standard media event. Nesting can also help you organize a timeline or apply other effects.

Split-Screen A/B Previewing
Compare your affected and unaffected video, or compare the timeline with a clipboard image—all viewable in real-time on an external monitor via 1394 enabled hardware

System-Wide Media Management
You can use the Media Manager window to search and manage your collection of media assets so you can easily find the right file for your Vegas projects. The Media Manager maintains a database of your files, including the attributes, ACID metadata, and tags that you can assign to classify your audio and video clips.

AAF Import and Export
You can use AAF (Advanced Authoring Format) files to exchange projects between applications.

A/V Synchronization Detect and Repair
When audio and video events are not aligned, Vegas software will highlight the events in the timeline so you can see synchronization problems at a glance. The software determines whether source events are synchronized by comparing grouped and overlapping media.

Envelope Automation Recording [ note: Because it supports the MC this is very important]
Record track envelope and keyframe parameters in real-time using a mouse or external control surface hardware with touch and latch record modes and automatic post-record keyframe thinning. Automation parameter control is available for both stereo and 5.1 tracks and buses, as well as for video track envelopes.

High-Definition Editing and Output
Vegas Pro 8 software supports HD editing and rendering, including output to 1080/60i, 1080/30p, 1080/24p, 720/60p, 720/30p, and 720/24p. Output high definition video to .AVI, .MOV, MPEG-2, Windows Media 9 Series, RealVideo 9, .PNG and .JPEG sequences. Work with project sizes up to 2048x2048.

Precision Snapping
Vegas Pro 8 offers several object "snapping" options. You can snap to events on any track. In addition, color-coded snap indicators denote a snap object type; marker, region, event, cursor, grid. Complex projects involving multiple tracks with each containing several events prove difficult and tedious to precise align events placement. By providing more snap objects across all tracks, precise event placement is simplified.

View Media Marker Names in Events
Media used in the timeline may contain markers. Vegas Pro 8 software can enable the display of these media markers directly on the timeline event. By displaying the individual media markers on the explicit media event and editor can quickly focus on key points of interest with out cluttering the entire workspace.

Enhanced Keyboard Mapping
Vegas Pro 8 offers improved flexibility to customize keyboard shortcuts for easy skill transfer from another application.

Project References in Rendered Files
When your Vegas project uses media that was rendered with an embedded project path reference, you can easily open the source project in the associated application if you need to edit the media later. For example, imagine that you have an audio file on the Vegas timeline that was rendered from an ACID project. In previewing your Vegas project, you discover that you accidentally rendered your ACID project with a critical track muted. You can simply right-click the event on the Vegas Pro timeline and choose Edit Source Project from the shortcut menu to reopen your ACID project, unmute the track, and then re-render it.

Trimmer Window
Use the Trimmer window to select portions of a piece of media that can be placed into events on tracks, and easily create media subclips that reference portions of a media file.

JKL Scrub; Timeline and Keyboard Trimming
Scan your project to quickly find edit points using new tape-style scrubbing. Control playback of your project at varying speeds. Scrub using JKL/shuttle, keyboard commands, or external devices such as the Contour A/V Solutions ShuttlePro (www.contourdesign.com).

Customizable User Interface
Vegas Pro 8 software has a clean and intuitive interface and uses familiar Windows keyboard commands. Windows XP theme support and interface color adjustments allow for a wide variety of customization that best suits your working style.

User-Definable Multiple Docking Window Layouts
Design the Vegas editing environment to maximize productivity. Dock multiple windows and save up to ten layout configurations for single and dual monitor systems. Easily recall a customized window layout for a specific editing task, and instantly switch to new layouts during playback.

Customizable Keyboard Mapping
Customize Vegas keyboard commands to fit your editing process. Create and edit new keyboard shortcuts, import a keyboard mapping scheme or save your current layout for use as a backup—even share keyboard layouts with other Vegas users.

Media Subclips
Use the Trimmer window to create subclips that reference portions of a media file. Subclips can also be created directly within the Vegas timeline. All subclips are added to the media pool and can be used like any other event in your Vegas project.

Real-Time A/V Event Reverse
Instantly reverse audio and video events on the timeline either as a locked A/V event group or as independent elements.

Effects Package Folders
Quickly recall frequently used chains of effects in your Vegas project. Effects packages in Vegas Pro 8 software retain their chain order and individual plug-in settings so you can quickly apply desired effects to media.

Additional Marker Support
Vegas Pro 8 software provides support for up to 99 numbered markers. The marker tool allows easy navigation between adjacent markers and editing of multiple selected markers.

Network Rendering
Speed up production time by rendering complex multimedia projects over networked computers. Divide Vegas projects into smaller sections that are distributed across multiple machines, and let Vegas software reassemble the pieces into a single rendered file. Each copy of Vegas software comes with two additional render-only installations.

Keyboard Trimming and Event Shuffling
Expertly edit complex long-form projects using mouse or keyboard trimming, event shuffling, as well as advanced ripple editing modes.

Unlimited Undo/Redo
Vegas software allows an unlimited number of edits to be undone or restored. Quickly and easily restore previous edits without needing to rework an entire Vegas project.


Note;
I could not find an equivalent listing for Premiere, sorry. But if you see anything that is not in Premiere let me know. On the other hand if you know that it has something useful that Vegas doesn't let me know too.

I have Premiere CS3; (CS4 is the latest version.) I bought it as part of the Production Premium suite as the other integration tools that do everything form managing assets to sound editing and animation control are all part of the growing video arsenal. Spend a bit of time at the Adobe site and see for yourself. You can download fully functioning trials.

Here's a snippet from What's new in Premiere CS3. Of course CS4 would have built on that considerably.

New features
Adobe Premiere® Pro CS3 is now available for both Windows and Mac OS X. Adobe Premiere Pro CS3, in combination with Adobe® OnLocation™ and Adobe® Encore® CS3, makes every step of video production more efficient; from on-location capture, through post-production, to final delivery: on-disk, on-line and on mobile devices. Here's a quick look at some of the new features that help make Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 an integral part of Adobe's comprehensive solution for even the most demanding productions.

Adobe® OnLocation now included Eliminate the capture process by recording SD and HD video directly from your camera to a laptop or workstation. Instantly review any shot. Log clips during your shoot. Maximize camera image quality during shoots by calibrating your camera, checking levels, and monitoring your signal. Avoid problems and improve quality on location with the virtual reference monitor, comprehensive waveform monitor, vectorscope, and audio spectrum analyzer. Save tape and save time with Adobe OnLocation. (Requires Bootcamp for Mac OS.)

Adobe® Encore® CS3 now included Create DVDs and take advantage of Blu- ray Disc technology using Adobe Encore CS3, now included with Adobe Premiere Pro. Work with the same Encore authoring interface and features used to create standard-definition DVDs. Author once, deliver twice: Automatically convert HD Blu-ray Disc projects into standard-definition DVDs.

High quality slow motion with time remapping Create dramatic slow and fast motion effects without exporting clips to another application. With precise keyframe control, real-time feedback, and advanced frame-blending quality, you can change speed slowly or quickly, and even make a clip run backwards before resuming normal forward motion. You can generate even better in-between frames through pixel-motion analysis.

Publish DVD projects to the web With one click, easily create Adobe Flash® versions of DVD and Blu-ray Disc projects for publishing to the web. Use Encore, included with Adobe Premiere Pro, to create Flash content, complete with DVD interactivity and menus, without learning Flash programming.

Smart File Search Find files faster with search tools that instantly update their results list as you type. Sort and organize assets into multiple project panels, each with its own graphical or text view setting. Manage your project and its assets with greater ease and efficiency.

Improved editing efficiency Work faster with powerful and flexible editing tools. No more waiting for audio to render when working with nested sequences. Replace any clip in the timeline with a new clip while preserving the replaced clip's attributes, filters, and settings.

Output for mobile devices Make your video viewable on the latest delivery platforms. Encode video for delivery to cell phones, portable media players, and other mobile devices. Check playback through emulations of the interface, screen size, and data rate of specific popular devices. Download profile updates to simulate the latest devices as they are released.

Flash Video export with markers converted to cue points Encode video and audio for Flash projects and web playback with direct Flash Video (FLV) export. Adobe Premiere Pro timeline markers become Flash cue points that trigger interactivity and navigation. Create Flash Video with ease.

Broader format support Edit the progressive HDV formats and frame rates found in new cameras from Canon, Sony, and JVC. Work with emerging camera formats through the wide range of third-party products, both software and hardware, optimized to work with Adobe Premiere Pro CS3.

ORIGINAL: tazman

Thanks everyone. As far as premier. i have the Adobe Web CS3 (it includes Photoshop, etc). If I were to look at premier, which package would I want to look at? They have a few.,

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/production/upgrade/

i can hook you up! :-)