REQUEST OPINIONS RE SWITCHING FROM WINDOWS TO MAC

Hello Fellow Wizards,
Please tell me you opinion of the experience I can expect when switching from Windows to Mac.  What joys and challenges can I expect?  Does Sonar even work on a Mac?  What about software challenges? (I work with Ivory, Omnisphere, Sampletank 3, etc. etc and Waves Processors among others. 
 
Thanks for your time!

One question... Why would you want to switch to a mac?
If you have to start using Logic or another mac-only product I can understand. But, please don't do it because the Apple hardware is supposedly so much better and more stable than a windows machine. If you are going to run Sonar (which you indeed can as reactorstudios said), you will have to run windows on the mac, which basically turns it into a (quite expensive) windows machine...
If you are going to switch, do it for the right reasons, and not because someone tells you it is more stable, faster, or more secure. Stability comes from the fact that OS X is built for the hardware, so if you mix good hardware with windows, you get the same stability (at a lower cost). Faster is very subjective. My 4 year old (windows) machine is probably slower than a brand new mac or a brand new windows machine. My macbook pro (from 2012) is a lot slower than any of my windows machines, and costs about the same. Security is a myth. Windows has had far less vulnerabilities than OS X has the last few years.
Coreaudio is indeed better than asio (by a small margin on good hardware, but still), but only works in OS X, not on windows...
 
So, if you like the looks of the Apple machines or you want to run some apple-only software, I'd say, go for it. Just don't excpect Sonar to run any better on it. Otherwise, save some money, and get a good windows machine.

There are workstation machines from HP and Lenovo (among others) that offer dual CPU support up to 12 cores each, so the hardware is available. It's also not cheap, but more configurable (especially now, when you look at the current mac pro offering). You can also find workstation motherboards from Asus or supermicro. But, if you're not comfortable with building your own machine, that might not be the way to go...
 
But Keni is right about OS X, I don't like OS X that much either. I find it very restrictive to be honest. And, I managed to make it crash more than my windows machines... :)

Yep.. They are.. Still, I would like one... :)
 
But the "small" workstations are not that expensive. You can get one for 2500-3000€ around here. Usually with only one 8 or 10 core cpu, but still with some room to add a CPU later on. I've been thinking about getting one of these, but I should concentrate on actual music instead of having gearlust.... I hardly get over 20% cpu usage at any time...

marvinglenn2
...Does Sonar even work on a Mac?...

 
That question was answered in your previous thread about Mac v PC.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/m3131103.aspx
Were you expecting a different answer this time?

I tried running SONAR on Parallels on my Mac and it ran dog slow. Not very reliable performance.
 
Previously I ran SONAR (and Live) on a Bootcamped Mac. Live did okay for simple clip triggered stuff but when I started adding synths it didn't like it. Really good Virtualization seems a ways off still. I'd stick with the OS the program was written for until then.

It occurs to me that I ought to qualify my use of the Macbook with Sonar a bit beyond what I stated previously, lest anyone think they can run out and buy a MacBook Air tomorrow and leave the Microsoft world behind. My Macbook is used primary for my day job: Architecture. I run Autodesk Revit software in Windows 7 via Parallels all day, every day. It works great. However, in order to have access to sufficient resources for use of Revit and - back to music talk - Sonar while running a virtualized OS i've obtained a monster of a machine. It's a $3600 machine, to be clear. Indeed, as others have stated, Mac's are expensive and you can spec equal or better hardware for the same money if you stick with a Windows machine. I could build one hell of a machine for running Sonar natively in windows with that money. In fact, my studio PC is a $1500 (in 2006) machine I built and have upgraded over the years with additional RAM and faster hard drives. It runs the latest version of Sonar incredibly well, arguably better than my newer and far more powerful Mac. The key, I believe, is that I ONLY use it as a DAW, so 100% of it's resources are dedicated to running Sonar and the VSTs within.
Contrary to what a few other commenters have advised, I've found the Mac OS to be substantially more stable and better organized than the latest Windows builds. I am a Windows enthusiast (dating back to Windows 3.1), so I don't make that statement lightly. 
On the audio front, I dream that Microsoft will someday implement interface aggregation (no, ASIO4ALL doesn't cut it), and connectivity features that can hold a candle to what Apple has built into their OS. Every piece of hardware in my studio that can communicate with a computer does so more effectively with Mac OS X than it does with Windows 7 (or 8, for that matter).

There is only one big reason to change operating systems and that is the latency of the audio interface driver (specifically written for the operating system)/and the layer between it and the main OS.

Linux for instance I have found huge benefits over windows in this area from tests. Sadly I can't get Platinum to run under Wine (close but no cigar). I just have a problem with a few DLL's, if anybody has managed it please ping me!

Apple users will still have to run Windows with Sonar so no benefit. Windows is pretty crappy on this area to be honest, apparently there may be big improvements to come in windows 10 according to the bakers as MS is finally waking up to the fact that some customers need low latency.

reactorstudios
On the audio front, I dream that Microsoft will someday implement interface aggregation (no, ASIO4ALL doesn't cut it), and connectivity features that can hold a candle to what Apple has built into their OS. Every piece of hardware in my studio that can communicate with a computer does so more effectively with Mac OS X than it does with Windows 7 (or 8, for that matter).

Just in case anyone misunderstands your comments, Windows can aggregate WDM devices, but the implementation is not as good as Core Audio.

I use Windows and Mac computers. I prefer Windows desktop for heavy-duty audio and video work because of the bang-for-the-buck factor. I also prefer Windows laptops for live performance because they're easier to replace or repair, or even carry a spare mirrored laptop as backup. Windows takes more work to set up properly but once it's done, it's done.
 
I use my Mac desktop for office work, spreadsheets, watching movies, writing articles and books, etc. In other words, I use Windows for applications often associated with the Mac, and vice-versa. In technical terms, I'm a** backwards 
 
My Mac has DP, Pro Tools, Logic, Live, and some other music programs installed. Logic is IMHO the most "SONAR-like."
 
For laptops, I also have both Windows and Mac. My laptop case allows me to take both, which I often do when travelling.
 
Overall, I see many more similarities than differences. The only application where I think you really must have a Mac is desktop publishing, and you really need Windows if you plan to run scientific applications. For anything else, they both have strengths and limitations. 

I wouldn't buy a Mac to run Sonar via bootcamp. I would just use a Windows machine and enjoy some of the things Windows does good like graphics intensive games.
 
But my experience so far, about a year and a half, with a Macbook Pro has been great and I would miss a lot about OS X and Apple if I had to go back to Windows only.
 
For me OS X seems much more complete and polished compared to Windows and it has worked out great (not perfect but really good).
 
With Windows it seemed like I always had to walk on egg shells with audio, and to a certain extent video, and well pretty much all hardware. ASIO vs WDM vs whatever the default windows audio driver is being used, and internal sound card conflicting with external audio interface, and Windows programs conflicting with each other when using them at the same time as using your audio interface and audio program etc. The default monitor changing because you plunged in the video monitors differently this time and nothing displaying because the monitor isn't compatible with the resolution/frequency and Windows can't figure it out etc.
 
On the Mac I have zero fears running what ever I want all at the same time with what ever configuration hardware audio/video device I'm currently using. In fact, I have no idea what driver mode it uses and could care less. Hot swapping monitors day in day out with out a glitch. Logic, Audition or whatever works just as good weather I'm using RME Fireface 800, Edirol FA-66, Belkin Thunderbolt dock or the laptops internal sound. Latency? Seems fine with all the above. What did I do to configure the machine. Nothing.
 
And all the little things seem a little more complete and polished in OS X. There's not much I need in 3rd party apps. Silly little things, like taking screen shots, recording the screen, FontBook to see what fonts are installed, screen sharing (getting Windows Messenger remote assistance was a crap shoot at best), backup built in etc. Plus it integrates with iOS well. And security software, what's that? Been a year and a half and I haven't thought about security software once, or had to deal with it scanning all the time, finding fake crap etc. (Though, in Windows defense, MSE was pretty unobtrusive. Also updates, it's a one stop shop that pretty much runs itself. No more having to go to NVidea site or Mobo site etc searching for an update to hopefully fix some issue, trying to find the correct update etc. A BIOs, What's a Bio's? And who cares?
 
I always hear people say how much more Macs cost being built with standard cheap hardware. I'm not so sure. A lot of the cost was the retina display and pci-express SSD drive. The display has been tremendous for video editing, zero calibration. The SSD hums along over 700 MB/s. Thunderbolt 2 has worked out great with all hardware including both my firewire audio interfaces.
 
I have no problem with Windows really and I think Windows 10 is going to be nice
 
But marvinglenn2 asked so I thought I'd share my first experience with a Mac.
 
I'm probably just as tired of hearing about Apple and the "i" this and "i" that as anyone. But my experience has been pretty smooth. Logic, Final Cut and Motion have worked out good for me. Fingers crossed. Apple does seem to be moving really fast with stuff and I could see it leading to problems. Hopefully not.
 
And as far as a learning curve goes, it did take a little getting used to the differences. But they are minor and it became second nature pretty quick.
 
Oh, and did I mention that Logic works 100% with my control surface CM Labs MotorMix. I pointed out to Cakewalk the problems with the control surface and Sonar after I upgraded to Sonar 7 back in the day. They confirmed the problems. Never fixed.

Here is another one, thought I'd mention because I'm sure I've already made some enemies. Hope not though.
 
Not sure if this is still an issue on PC but I used to see it quite often.
 
Why are there so many problems with Wifi interfering with audio on a PC, or causing cpu spikes. I used to see all the time people saying turn of the Wifi to help fix drop outs.
 
Wifi has never been needed to be turned of on the Mac. Connected to the internet 24/7. I do toggle "do not disturb" on so I don't get interrupted with notifications. But they don't cause any issues. Just don't need to see them when I'm in the middle of working on something.

yah could be the thunderbolt 2 is working well, on my PC and helping me get internet here, which I could not do with firewire and windows 7....and pc anything or audio connected without issues in the daws of choice with firewire or usb...but then HDMI also having issues with audio, recently found as a variable, now fixed into sights around the world I hope to disable!...makes the idea of that , could of been the real hidden mystery to my problems with audio pops and clicks into win 7 on firewire to spur me to try...Thunderbolt 2... has cured many problems here ...on pc...As I am testing a new fresh supposedly rebuilt installing of WIN 8.1,((yet has bookmarks carried over in IE 11))((and desktop ini hidden icons on desktop)) ((why?))..no answer yet from MS on ICLOUD Keeping settings and info of setups and putting them back in yet, as a possible culpret...so I do not know what is going on here.....at this time..with bookmarks being transferred into a clean fresh install...perhaps it found a backup folder on another drive or some swap file on another drive to bring them into IE?...
 
 I am going to attempt a full update of OS first, and install all MB Drivers...including Wi FI...and even this NFC thingy.. which I believe connects to it, made by ASUS, that need wi fi...and then put on some Platinum mayham...and see what cooks the books!....and post...if it works or not...just to see...a possible solution unfold for many on both?....
 
Now that would be something..MS might like...or not like...it was MS that developed Thunderbolt..i believe...not sure why they keep doing the usb thing...But it has third parties happy I guess....could be better?...Yah thunderbolt 3....but not yet?...why?........moe money...moe hair loss...I imagine is the game play....but will the hair fall out at the same speed?.....now that has to be tested also.

Mac pros.
Hardware all sourced by Apple and the OS written around it. No more chasing after multiple drivers, sorting out the BIOS and cpu sleep states, disabling core parking etc.
Core audio/MIDI "just works".
Logic Pro is pretty good and inexpensive.
Good displays.

Windows PC pros.
A PC that costs half the price of a top-end iMac will be at least as powerful.
More software available.

Mac cons.
Cost.
Not quite as crashproof as Apple worshippers often claim. The sound of a Mac falling over or glitching into a 20Kwatt PA is just as ugly as a PC doing the same.
Can not run Sonar natively.
Only 4 USB ports at most.
Extra drives have to be external and you can't upgrade almost any components.
Thunderbolt is not yet very well supported and what hardware exists is expensive and many external USB/Thunderbolt drives are limited by their internal electronics to USB speeds (and while USB3 is fast it isn't as fast in the real world as a directly connected SATA drive.

PC cons.
The endless hunt for the right drivers.
The habit of PC component manufacturers to let the end customer do all the testing and quality control on their products.
Picking the right hardware components in the first place.
Cheap PCs have components chosen for cheapness rather than reliability or compatability with resource intensive applications like DAWs.
It can be very difficult to work out what isn't working correctly in a PC. Build your own and you are effectively warranty-less.

If you buy a new "Cylinder" Mac Pro, you're going to pay $3000-$4000... and have a machine that's slower than a PC that's about half that cost.
 
Also, you'd have absolutely zero expansion card slots.
All peripherals have to be either USB or Thunderbolt.