REVERB WITHOUT ONBOARD DSP

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jeff oliver
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2016/07/06 21:17:26 (permalink)

REVERB WITHOUT ONBOARD DSP

Hello everyone. I've been wanting reverb on my vocals like, forever! The forcusrite 18i20 is great but does not have DSP onboard. It cost me one of my channels but now I have reverb in the headphones but not in the recording unless I choose. I have a presonus D8 added for 16 channels.
 
I routed my mic into a Mackie 1402, went left out to the regular path but right out to a digitech vocalist live then sent that to its own track. I thought maybe it wouldn't work but IT DID! Sounds great to hear reverb in the headphones!
 
Maybe this workaround is common but I never read it anywhere. I love my setup and didn't want to spend over a grand just for onboard processing. Plus the 18i20 has everything I needed otherwise. I have 6 mono mixes with two pair of monitors. Just wanted to share with you guys and gals. Thanks

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    ULTRABRA
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    Re: REVERB WITHOUT ONBOARD DSP 2016/07/08 05:26:23 (permalink)
    Why not add the reverb inside Sonar?

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    #2
    jeff oliver
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    Re: REVERB WITHOUT ONBOARD DSP 2016/07/08 19:49:23 (permalink)
    I didn't explain correctly. I can add inside sonar but I have to enable input monitoring which sounds awkward because of the delay time. I was wanting reverb just for the vocalist to sing to instead of a dry signal. It works inside sonar but added more of an echo than actual reverb.
     
    I can now record the reverb on a separate track if I like and blend in to taste or not record it at all but the vocals are still hearing verb.
     
    I use to do this with my Mackie 32 8 but that's been long ago and I no longer use that board. Thanks.

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    #3
    bitflipper
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    Re: REVERB WITHOUT ONBOARD DSP 2016/07/09 09:32:37 (permalink)
    Many singers (including yours truly) get a better performance when they hear reverb in the headphones while singing. Of course, you'll always get a better final result by adding reverb later, in the box. But it's nice to monitor with reverb while tracking.
     
    Even the best do it:

     
    Another solution, if your audio interface supports it, is to use an effects loop within the interface. Unfortunately, it's one of the few features the Focusrite lacks, and one of the few features I miss from my old MOTU. Interfaces with a built-in effects loop is even better than having integrated effects because you can insert anything you like into the loop. There's no latency and the effect doesn't have to be recorded. Lacking such a feature you can still go old-school and dedicate a channel, as described by the OP.
     
     


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    jeff oliver
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    Re: REVERB WITHOUT ONBOARD DSP 2016/07/09 11:40:14 (permalink)
    Agreed. It was the one feature I always wish I had for vocalist. And yes, I use reverb from inside sonar, one from Nectar and one sent to a buss. Just a little from each but it does make for a more interesting vocal.
     
    I've been setting up the new space for a few weeks now and getting very close to finishing. Getting my playback volume in check and my headphone volume and such.  I like for the playback to be a few db quieter than the performance so when I overdub the artist can hear themselves over the last performance.
     
    Thanks for the input gentlemen. Any advice is appreciated! Michael Jackson!!!!
     

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    #5
    Sonico
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    Re: REVERB WITHOUT ONBOARD DSP 2016/07/13 18:55:39 (permalink)
    Hello Jeff, with your 18i20 you should be able to monitor fx inside sonar without noticeable latency.
    What drivers for the 18i20 you have installed?
    What buffer size are you setting in the 18i20 software?
     
    I have mine at 32 samples when recording and can't hear any latency at all, even with 64 samples I can record vocals and sometimes guitar thru amplitube and sounds very good.
    I have the Scarlett MixControl 1.9b12 with Focusrite USB2 Drivers 3.2.2

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    #6
    AntManB
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    Re: REVERB WITHOUT ONBOARD DSP 2016/07/14 08:44:56 (permalink)
    One option I have thought about but haven't yet tried, is to enable input monitoring but set the reverb plugin to wet only.  That way the singer gets the main signal from the direct monitoring (with no latency) mixed with the reverb from the plugin (there will be some latency on the reverb but this should** be less obvious/offputting when the main signal has no delay).
     
    Jeff's original solution may be better if you have the necessary hardware but this may work for people without any hardware reverb option.
     
    AMB
     
    ** that is my assumption - I may be completely wrong :)
     
    #7
    jeff oliver
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    Re: REVERB WITHOUT ONBOARD DSP 2016/07/15 19:23:43 (permalink)
    Hey, thanks for the advice gentlemen. I'll have to see what my settings are. Don't  believe I'm as low as yours Sonico. Just remember an echo along with the reverb.
     
    AntMan, I haven't tried your suggestion either, but you both may be correct.
     
    Sorry it took me so long to respond. I had surgery and in bed now for a few weeks. Much appreciated!
    I love the setup now

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    #8
    Strryder
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    Re: REVERB WITHOUT ONBOARD DSP 2016/07/15 20:24:39 (permalink)
    AntManB
    One option I have thought about but haven't yet tried, is to enable input monitoring but set the reverb plugin to wet only.  That way the singer gets the main signal from the direct monitoring (with no latency) mixed with the reverb from the plugin (there will be some latency on the reverb but this should** be less obvious/offputting when the main signal has no delay).
     
    Jeff's original solution may be better if you have the necessary hardware but this may work for people without any hardware reverb option.
     
    AMB
     
    ** that is my assumption - I may be completely wrong :)
     




    This method works just fine for reverb, after setting the plugin to 100% wet the latency just sounds like a predelay on the reverb. If the reverb plugin is being used as a track insert the channel fader will act as a reverb return level control, when done recording on that track you can just drag the plug to an unused track to keep the settings intact for later use.
     
    The same method can also be used for delay/echo, but of course the delay/echo time will have the latency time added to it.
    post edited by Strryder - 2016/07/15 20:46:00
    #9
    chuckebaby
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    Re: REVERB WITHOUT ONBOARD DSP 2016/07/16 19:10:41 (permalink)
    I used to monitor reverb by routing my vocal tracks to a bus with a send knob.
    this was only for monitoring purposes. sonar is not printing it.
    then I started realizing, the reverb setting I wanted was all set up and easy.
    so I just put that in each track in the FX bin.
    made a track template, that's my vocal track preset.
     
    but a few years back I switched to using Delay instead on my vocal tracks (just for monitoring purposes).
    a very fast delay, almost double sounding. really thickens the monitor mix up.
     
    a few things can happen with this scenario though.
    After a while one can be fooled in to thinking this monitor sound should be included in the mix.
    hel if it sounds good while recording it, it must better when mixing it right ?
    not really. don't fall in to that category. before the days of DAWs, I printed a lot of FX to tape.
    I ruined many a good tracks that way.

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    #10
    BASSJOKER
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    Re: REVERB WITHOUT ONBOARD DSP 2016/08/12 22:19:47 (permalink)
    Nice songs/mixes Chuck....I'm a fan

     
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