Rain
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bapu
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 02:46:25
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I remember his first fight with Sonny Liston. Listened to it with my Dad on the radio.
Never did get into boxing though.
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Jeff M.
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 04:05:51
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Ali is/was a legend!
Big boxing fan here, local friends are in the mix.
Saddest news since Gatti..
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craigb
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 04:52:36
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/06/04 11:47:04
Are they sure? Did they count to ten?
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Leadfoot
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 06:53:29
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A great boxer as well as a great showman. RIP...
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KenB123
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 08:58:46
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Controversial. Arrogant. Great showman. Great fighter. Fun to watch even for non-boxing fans. RIP.
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spacey
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 10:05:43
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☄ Helpfulby Rain 2016/06/04 17:17:06
When he renounced his US citizenship they should have put him on a plane and dumped him out in a place of his choosing. When pulled that **** I was done with him. Didn't matter to me what he had to say or do after that. (his way out of going to Nam) Not to mention; "Integration is wrong. We don’t want to live with the white man; that’s all." "No intelligent black man or black woman in his or her right black mind wants white boys and white girls coming to their homes to marry their black sons and daughters. " Freedom of speech. I thought it served him well and I was sure glad to know his truths.
post edited by spacey - 2016/06/04 10:38:42
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Metaphasic
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 10:08:39
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He punched people for a living. Scum. Consent to be punched is irrelevant.
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Susan G
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 16:31:14
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Serenarules
He punched people for a living. Scum. Consent to be punched is irrelevant.
Oh, there was much more to him than that. -Susan
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bayoubill
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 17:01:18
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Before Ali was fighting Liston for the first time he did an interview of which I've haven't seen since. In that interview he was Clay and not yet the Ali personality. I was boxing in a boxing club at the time. I think I was 10yrs old, anyway, he stated that he wanted to build the persona of Gorgeous George, the wrestler, into his own. After that everything about him changed. I think most of what he did was a show and a good one. Whether or not I agree with his politics or religion doesn't matter. It cannot be denied he was a major influence in the world community and deservedly so.
RIP CHAMP
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Leadfoot
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 19:27:25
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spacey
When he renounced his US citizenship they should have put him on a plane and dumped him out in a place of his choosing.
When pulled that **** I was done with him. Didn't matter to me what he had to say or do after that. (his way out of going to Nam)
Not to mention;
"Integration is wrong. We don’t want to live with the white man; that’s all."
"No intelligent black man or black woman in his or her right black mind wants white boys and white girls coming to their homes to marry their black sons and daughters."
Freedom of speech. I thought it served him well and I was sure glad to know his truths.
I didn't know any of that, Spacey. Thanks for the enlightenment. I tend to feel a little differently about him now, after reading that.
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Rain
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 19:51:48
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Leadfoot
spacey
When he renounced his US citizenship they should have put him on a plane and dumped him out in a place of his choosing.
When pulled that **** I was done with him. Didn't matter to me what he had to say or do after that. (his way out of going to Nam)
Not to mention;
"Integration is wrong. We don’t want to live with the white man; that’s all."
"No intelligent black man or black woman in his or her right black mind wants white boys and white girls coming to their homes to marry their black sons and daughters."
Freedom of speech. I thought it served him well and I was sure glad to know his truths.
I didn't know any of that, Spacey. Thanks for the enlightenment. I tend to feel a little differently about him now, after reading that.
I didn't know either - and that's only the tip of the iceberg. After doing a bit of research, it turns out that the man was a stellar specimen. Loudmouth, arrogant, prejudiced, uneducated - a forefather of our beautiful modern culture... "All Jews and gentiles are devils… Blacks are no devils… Everything black people doing wrong comes from [the white people]: Drinking, smoking, prostitution, homosexuality, stealing, gambling: It all comes from [the white people]" "We who follow the teachings of Elijah Muhammad (leader of the Nation of Islam) don't want to be forced to integrate. Integration is wrong. We don't want to live with the white man" "A black man should be killed if he's messing with a white woman." When the interviewer asked about black women crossing the colour barrier, Ali responded: "Then she dies. Kill her, too." It's funny how the mainstream media ignores all of that... I ended up thinking that it was too bad the the real greatest, Bruce Lee, didn't get to clean his clock.
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Leadfoot
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 20:14:51
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Rain
Leadfoot
spacey
When he renounced his US citizenship they should have put him on a plane and dumped him out in a place of his choosing.
When pulled that **** I was done with him. Didn't matter to me what he had to say or do after that. (his way out of going to Nam)
Not to mention;
"Integration is wrong. We don’t want to live with the white man; that’s all."
"No intelligent black man or black woman in his or her right black mind wants white boys and white girls coming to their homes to marry their black sons and daughters."
Freedom of speech. I thought it served him well and I was sure glad to know his truths.
I didn't know any of that, Spacey. Thanks for the enlightenment. I tend to feel a little differently about him now, after reading that.
I didn't know either - and that's only the tip of the iceberg. After doing a bit of research, it turns out that the man was a stellar specimen. Loudmouth, arrogant, prejudiced, uneducated - a forefather of our beautiful modern culture...
"All Jews and gentiles are devils… Blacks are no devils… Everything black people doing wrong comes from [the white people]: Drinking, smoking, prostitution, homosexuality, stealing, gambling: It all comes from [the white people]"
"We who follow the teachings of Elijah Muhammad (leader of the Nation of Islam) don't want to be forced to integrate. Integration is wrong. We don't want to live with the white man"
"A black man should be killed if he's messing with a white woman." When the interviewer asked about black women crossing the colour barrier, Ali responded: "Then she dies. Kill her, too."
It's funny how the mainstream media ignores all of that...
I ended up thinking that it was too bad the the real greatest, Bruce Lee, didn't get to clean his clock.
That would have been a sight to behold. 
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Voda La Void
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 20:15:21
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I find him fascinating. He had a valid point of view that he felt strongly about and it worked for him and his own. We always like diversity until we actually get it. Weirdos are great. They make life interesting. RIP Ali, even if you didn't want me living in your neighborhood!
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drewfx1
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 20:29:23
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I don't know where you found it ignored.
It's been quite well known and well reported over many, many years that for a time Ali was a very prominent member and mouthpiece of the controversial black separatist movement (which was never as popular as the many, many white separatist movements).
He eventually changed his views and moved on.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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tom1
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 21:08:49
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When did Ali do most of his trash talking?
When he was young, promoting fights, a young man with a microphone in his face most of the time. Reporters goading him, hoping for a great headline.
Young Ali was not very well liked by the general public. He played the bad guy and sold tickets and he did it very well.
Even if he meant every word of his trash talk, a young black man growing up in the south in the 1950s might have had a few reasons to be anti-white.
As far as his dodging the draft that took a pair of cajones. He never would have come close to Nam.He probably would have had a few scheduled fights and a ton of security to keep people away.
Dodging the draft cost him. Not only financially but the years he couldn't fight cost him as a fighter. Some think he never was the same after the layoff.
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Rain
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 21:12:53
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drewfx1
I don't know where you found it ignored.
It's been quite well known and well reported over many, many years that for a time Ali was a very prominent member and mouthpiece of the controversial black separatist movement (which was never as popular as the many, many white separatist movements).
He eventually changed his views and moved on.
You mean that getting punched in the head several hundred times made him better? :P
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spacey
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 21:19:04
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If he would have followed through with his beliefs I would have respected him for that. If I hated America and renounced my citizenship I'd leave and if I didn't I'd understand being shipped off to another country. It's nothing to do with politics. If he would have chosen and taken his paths without condemning others for theirs I wouldn't have had complaints. What bothered me more than anything wasn't him. It was how and still is how so many Americans hypocrisy is common. It is not uncommon to find racist that speak their mind in the worst way and then spend hundreds of dollars to attend a sports event to watch players the day before that they had spoken the worst of. It was like that when he started boxing and it is like that to this day. I've been around people all my life that just didn't get it. It is very disheartening that it's 2016 and we're in no better shape as whole than what we are...and I include all peoples. I know I will never see us as one in my lifetime and at the rate we're going I don't think it'll ever be. So many things could have and could be "great" such as his boxing skills but they're torn down by us all. Sad. Very sad. Now people want to ignore all the disgust and talk only of the good as if it never was and isn't still. Even still...I will say I feel for the ones that did love him. I do know we all suffer the same pain when we lose one we love...at least I think most agree on that. Thought I'd add...since I'm home alone this weekend LOL... If I had a ship like in Silent Running I'd renounce my citizenship to Earth in a heartbeat. I can say in all honesty that when I'm at home on my property and I don't let the outside world in via electronics all is perfect. The minute I leave my property I'm dealing with the craziest **** imaginable. I can imagine that my family and those little robots that could be programmed for technical skills would all be very content drifting away on sea of forgotten teardrops...on a lifeboat...oh, sorry. Some things I just can't help...time for guitar.
post edited by spacey - 2016/06/04 22:00:54
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backwoods
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 22:13:25
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RIP Ali. I still think Tyson in his pomp would have beaten him (Too fast). As for Bruce Lee-- well if it was boxing he would have been crucified because he was a total lightweight compared to these guys. Tyson IMO was the greatest
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drewfx1
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 22:21:24
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Rain
drewfx1
I don't know where you found it ignored.
It's been quite well known and well reported over many, many years that for a time Ali was a very prominent member and mouthpiece of the controversial black separatist movement (which was never as popular as the many, many white separatist movements).
He eventually changed his views and moved on.
You mean that getting punched in the head several hundred times made him better? :P
No.  A remembrance that touches on some of the controversies from a different side: "Muhammad Ali: Why they called him 'The Greatest' and why I called him my friend | Jerry Izenberg" http://www.nj.com/sports/..._ali_dies_the_gre.html
In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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Rain
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 22:24:28
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backwoods
As for Bruce Lee-- well if it was boxing he would have been crucified because he was a total lightweight compared to these guys. Tyson IMO was the greatest
I was thinking about that earlier today. Boxing, most certainly. But that isn't really fair is it, asking a little Chinese guy to beat a huge guy while forbidding him the use of his fighting tools. Yet every one who imagines such theoretical fight seems to feel that the only way to go is to do a boxing match. Instead, let's imagine what would have happened if Ali had been allowed to use kicks and whatever Lee was using. In a real fight, not one designed to advantage the bigger guy, I'd put my money on Lee every time.
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backwoods
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 22:25:16
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Rain
backwoods
As for Bruce Lee-- well if it was boxing he would have been crucified because he was a total lightweight compared to these guys. Tyson IMO was the greatest
Boxing, most certainly. But that isn't really fair is it, asking a little Chinese guy to beat a huge guy while forbidding him the use of his fighting tools.
Instead, let's imagine what would have happened if Ali had been allowed to use kicks and whatever Lee was using.
In a real fight, not one designed to advantage the bigger guy, I'd put my money on Lee every time.
It's boxing rain...
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Rain
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 22:27:54
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backwoods
Rain
backwoods
As for Bruce Lee-- well if it was boxing he would have been crucified because he was a total lightweight compared to these guys. Tyson IMO was the greatest
Boxing, most certainly. But that isn't really fair is it, asking a little Chinese guy to beat a huge guy while forbidding him the use of his fighting tools.
Instead, let's imagine what would have happened if Ali had been allowed to use kicks and whatever Lee was using.
In a real fight, not one designed to advantage the bigger guy, I'd put my money on Lee every time.
It's boxing rain...
That's what I say. In a REAL fight...
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backwoods
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/04 22:28:38
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with guns? and if tyson had trained as a cage wrestler fighter--- who knows? i think tyson would pull his arms off to be honest
post edited by backwoods - 2016/06/04 22:49:55
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/05 08:44:03
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Serenarules
He punched people for a living. Scum. Consent to be punched is irrelevant.
He only punched people who chose to punch and get punched, and that's higly relevant. If you're looking at the world through a straw, don't expect to understand much. Some of us are poets, some are scientists, some are athletes, some are poetic athletes etc. People are different, life finds many paths, often in spite of what we wish. I have met a boxing professor of biology. Combat sports are a part of human culture, nature, evolution... Then again, I don't deny the several negative aspects of them. And very often, (usually?), it's the people who like combat sports that are the first ones put their own life at risk when the poets need to be protected.
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/05 09:55:16
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To continue...
I think Ali was (and is) too often taken as an intellectual, which he was not. His utterances should not be taken in the same way as those of an educated scolar or a professsional politician. He was an able bullhorn for the frustrated and neglected, a child of his time and era, but surely many of his exclamations were not as thoroughly pre meditated as many assume. IMO, He should be understood as phenomenon, as a whole, not as some kind of a guru and thinker, whos words hide greater wisdom.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/05 12:53:21
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Looking back on the life of Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali presents a clear dichotomy.
If we judge him solely on his sporting achievements, I don't think many would argue he wasn't one of the 'greatest'; certainly at his chosen sport, and conceivably of all sporting and athletic disciplines. In that so-called 'golden era' of heavyweight boxing, the undisputed champion of the world was as well known, as important, and maybe even more recognisable than the only other comparable sporting winners of worldwide renown, those of the football world cup. I guess in common with a lot of you, I'm old enough to remember the hyped-up aura and legend of global sporting events such as the Rumble in the Jungle and the Thrilla in Manilla.
As far as his political and religious leanings go, it's unimaginable that we'd ever have even heard of him had he been 'just another' black guy who eschewed such beliefs and had converted to Islam.
The man himself did nothing to separate his sporting life from his political and religious view, in fact quite the opposite; he used the success of his sporting career to allow himself an increasingly public platform to broadcast these sentiments. So it's almost impossible for us to do the same and separate these aspects when looking back on his life.
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Moshkito
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/05 22:34:58
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Rain
Even for people who aren't into boxing, it's hard not to be aware of such a legendary figure.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/...pr?ocid=ansmsnsports11
I always thought that one of his best quotes was ... all this ... and at the end ... "and I'm pretty, too!" Such a nice guy and a crack up!
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ston
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/06 07:15:26
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Quite the controversial figure was Mr Clay. I think his treatment of Frazier was disgraceful, especially considering the considerable support that Frazier provided earlier in his career. As for the greatest? Lennox Lewis, hands down. I honestly think he'd have beaten Tyson in his prime.
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kson
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Re: RIP Muhammad Ali
2016/06/10 11:11:09
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Boxing aside, I think that a few of you aren't able to relate to persecution by a group of people. He(Ali), Malcolm X and several other African Americans had extreme, all encompassing views of the Caucasian people because that's mostly what they saw. You can't eat here, you can't ride this bus, you can't get this job, you have to step aside when Caucasians walk on the sidewalk, you can't live here, etc. - all because of the way you look. You, too, would develop a bit of an attitude, to say the least. They later softened their views to target specific persecutors as opposed to the whole Caucasian race.
It's not unlike many of your grandparents or parents living though a specific time and, through enlightenment, change their perception(s).
I wouldn't be so quick to judge.
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