RME 9652 + 3 ADA8000 + live sound=need help

I'm not super technical...but i just upgraded my computer and am trying to expand my studio at the same time to get more tracks i can record during live sound (now that my computer will handle that) and i'm having trouble in a few places. i think my set up is fairly complex (for me it's complex) so i'll try to explain all i know about it that seems relevant. On my older computer i had an RME multiface sound card with coresponding PCI card (still have both) and one A/D D/A Berhinger ADA8000 connected via ADAT. From the multiface outputs i connected into the PA (Yamaha EMX 512 SC) and also to my monitors and headphones and i could play back on any of the 3 or a combination. i could even use the mixing software that came with the RME card (total mix i think) to direct specific track(s) in Sonar to outputs on the SC and into the pa mixer and mix the sound.
 
Ok, now the upgrade part. A friend just built me a "super computer" i7 950 sitting on a X58a motherboard (only has one pci slot) and it has 24 GB RAM! (is that even possible to use i wonder??) I'm running it and Sonar 8.5 Producer in 64 bit. Thats about all i know about the computer.
 
i just bought the RME 9652 SC because it has 3 ADAT inputs. This allowed me to expand to 3 ADA 8000's. This will give me 24 digital inputs (i need 21 that i can think of now so i only got 3 left to expand but that should be fine). the 1st problem i have is how to get stereo outputs for the studio monitors or headphones? Now i don't even have a place to plug my head phones into as i did when i was using the Multiface and i can't hook up the Multiface because the motherboard only has one PCI slot. i should have thought this out more...
 
The 2nd problem is how to get from the ADA8000's into the PA. When i bought this gear i thought i would simply run ADAT into the SC to record and simulteneously run XLR out the analog outputs into my PA for live sound (like it would split the signal path in 2) but that didn't work as expected. It finally worked by setting all the ADA8000's to slave, made the 9652 the master and ran ADAT out from 9652 back into ADAT input on the ADA8000's. I guess that activates the outputs because i get sound when running out of the ADA8000's into the PA and i can record too so I'm hopefully getting close! So i can now record successfully and play back on the PA but my next problem is how to monitor for mixing??
 
Next problem is the submix. i don't want to run my mics directly into the PA because I don't have enough inputs so i want to create what i think is a submix.  i have a vocopro 8000 (8 wireless mics) and from the 8 outputs on the receiver i'm trying to go into a Mackie 1202 VLZ mixer for a vocal submix and then run stereo into the PA so that i only have to use up 2 channels on my PA for vocals. The rest i need for instruments. The outputs from the SC to ADA8000 directly into the PA sounds great but if i add in the submix and go from SC to ADA8000 to Macki 1202 to PA it sounds aweful and super distorted. Does this just sound like a setting on the mackie?? i can't seem to get it fixed. Has anyone a clue of what to do in this situation? i simply want to record 24 channels digitally, play live music at the same time, monitor everthing and create a unique mix for the drummer to hear what he wants to hear while playing live (is that called a Cue Mix?) i'm obviously a bit new to all this. Thanks for any help!!

yes, it comes with total mix. it looks identical to the software that came with the RME Multiface as far as i can tell.

Ok, i think i've got this working now. What i did not understand is i can use the ADA8000's outputs independent of its inputs. That was the missing piece. The trick was like Ohhey said, use the RME total mix software to send all my 8 mics to one output on the ADA8000 and run one XLR from it to the PA and i've got sound. and i don't actually need that Mackie mixer for the submix since i can do that in total mix. I've already got a headphone amp (Berhinger powerplay pro 8) so i should have monitoring too but i need to run get some more cables to confirm.  This forum has some very helpful people on it! thanks 

Netanel


ohhey,
 
do i need to connect ADAT in and ADAT out on all 3 ADA8000's or only one of them? I only need about 6 outputs so one ADA8000 has plenty of outputs for me. Or do i need to run in and out of all 3 for clocking purposes? thanks

Yes, even if you are not using all those outputs you still need all the cables connected.  Digital audio interfaces like ADAT and SPDIF are all single direction only. So the only way to get the sample rate clock from the RME to the ADA8000 is to connect the out from the RME back to the ADA8000. You could use the WordClock BNC connector also but in your case ADAT is going to work just fine and the cables might even be easier to find then WordClock cables.

Just think of the RME, the 3 8000s, and the 6 cables as one big sound card with lots of I/O... LOL !   You should end up with a very nice and cost effective system.  With the RME you get the advantage of top end driver support and a huge digital mixer (TotalMix), and with the ADA8000s you get lots of cheap I/O that is still acceptable quality. Add in all those mic preamps and that's one heck of a system.

Netanel


ok, i've got to get 2 more cables then. I now have everything recording and playing back but there are some glitches to work out.
For example, the guitar and bass show absolutely no sound waves but yet i can hear the recording upon playback. i'd like to see the wave forms.

The PA speakers are a bit noisy now. Not terrible but on the noisy side. lots of hiss that will not be heard once we start playing but still I'd like to get rid of that. if i use the EQ on the PA and elininate 2K and 5k the hiss goes away but I don't want to leave my EQ like that as it will effect the sound too. Any idea how to reduce this?

Also, i have yet to get my headphones or studio monitors to work.  i can hear playback in my PA due to routing outputs in total mix but i can't get the headphone amp to work. I may not have it connected right. i connected a female XLR to TRS to the output channel 8 on an ADA8000 that does have ADAT going both ways and ran the TRS side into the direct channel input of a channel on the headphone amp. i  then plugged my headset into the output but don't hear a thing. Then i tried going 2 channels out of ADA8000 into the main input R and L and that didn't work either. Is there more to it than that? do i need to do something in total mix. i went to total mix and messed around with outputs 7 and 8 but that didn't do anything. i think this set up is getting close

The waveform thing is not related to the hardware setup.  Might need to clear the picture cache and start over.  If you have more then one version of Sonar installed make sure they don't share a picture cache folder.
 
Don't know what the source of your hiss is. You will have to find the source of it. Mute each input one at a time to see if it's one of those.  Check the signal at the mixer with headphones before it goes out to the amp. If it's clean there then it's the amp driving the speakers.  Don't plug guitars directly in to a line input, use a direct box and plug them into a mic preamp input or use a guitar effect box with a line level output.

Double check your routing in totalmix to make sure you are sending a copy of the inputs to the outputs you have the headphone amp plugged into. Remember in totalmix you don't have to use just one set of outputs, you can send a "copy" of the inputs to as many outputs as you want.  Use 2 for your monitors and 2 more for your headphone amp. That way you can control each one.  Also, all your sources need to be plugged into the ADA8000s so they can be routed to outputs.