RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400

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Genghis
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2018/02/15 05:52:23 (permalink)

RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400

I've been using the RME FireFace 400 via Firewire for several years now and it's great.  Reliable, great drivers, low-latency. Everything I could ask for. Decent enough clean pres, but I also have a couple of more colorful preamps when I need something like that.  (Warm Audio Tone Beast and UAD LA-610 Mk II).
 
While what I have works great and is paid for, I'm considering going for the RME UFX+ and using it via USB3.  On paper it looks like a pretty nice unit and a big step up all around compared to what I have now.  More and better pres, better converters, USB3 for now, Thunderbolt for the next generation DAW I may move to in 2 or 3 years.  Lots of things tempting me. 
 
I'm looking for a bit of real-world experience here on how they compare though. Will the USB3 connection meet or exceed the latency I get with the FireFace 400? I comfortably run at 64 samples in Studio 1 on everything with the FF400, so I'd definitely need that or better, but the overall improvements across the board interests me.  Any other pros/cons I should consider, besides the outlay of cash for this unit?

They call 'em fingers, but I've never seen 'em fing. 
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#1

15 Replies Related Threads

    gswitz
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    Re: RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400 2018/02/17 02:12:58 (permalink)
    The biggest difference will be the on board fx. You get an eq and compressor on every input and output. You also get reverb and delay. Recording onto a USB stick. Control with a tethered iPad if you want it. Class compliance so it works with Linux Ubuntu studio.

    Auto level for four tracks so you don't have to keep your eyes on gains.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #2
    Genghis
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    Re: RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400 2018/02/17 04:03:16 (permalink)
    Thanks for the feedback.  Those features are part of what catches my attention.  I think having that built in to the unit might make things nice for monitoring some reverb and delay while recording.  I hadn't heard about the auto level part, so that sounds kind of nice too.  I'll have to do a little reading on how that works.
     
    As long as the USB3 round-trip latency is the same or better than my FF400 gets with FireWire, I may have to think this over.  Definitely tempts me, but I don't have to decide right away.

    They call 'em fingers, but I've never seen 'em fing. 
    My Music is Here
    Studio Cat DAW
    #3
    gswitz
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    Re: RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400 2018/02/17 13:22:09 (permalink)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTHmki4VyfE
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVa3AyUNGuI
     
    In this one, one of the spectral analyzers is pre-eq and one is post eq
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYNE9ppu9bY
     
    The auto-level automatically reduces the gain until you have some pre-configured amount of headroom. If a sound comes down the line that is louder than the configured amount, it increments down the gain so that it would not.
     
    Now if something happens on set break, like someone unplugs a guitar, the level might get pushed down more than you want by a pop, but there is a floor that it will not go below so you never have a track that is unusable.
     
     Don't forget you can use the youtube controls to increase the quality so you can see what I'm clicking on as well as increase the playback speed so you can get through them faster.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #4
    Genghis
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    Re: RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400 2018/02/17 14:58:45 (permalink)
    Thanks for posting those... you're too late. LOL 
    I did a little more searching for videos (didn't see those, but they help too).  I saw enough last night that I did a little bit of looking around and found a pretty good deal on one and ordered it.  Looks like I'm going to be able to do some really wild stuff if needed.  I probably won't get nearly as involved, but those videos gave me a few ideas on how to have some fun with it when I get it in.
     
    I think what sold me on it was a video where the guy showed a pretty full Reaper project with the buffers set at 32 via USB and it was working well.  I knew the overall preamp and converter quality would be a step up, and the Total Mix stuff would be useful, but it reassured me that I wouldn't lose anything on the latency (and might actually gain even better performance).

    They call 'em fingers, but I've never seen 'em fing. 
    My Music is Here
    Studio Cat DAW
    #5
    gswitz
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    Re: RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400 2018/02/17 16:45:51 (permalink)
    I don't push the performance super hard, myself. I like to use soft synths, so my latency is mostly driven by Sonar and plugins, not by the RME. With no plugins, the RME can handle incredibly low latency. Plugin related latency really isn't the RME's fault.
     
    I'm glad you found some videos that sold you on it.
     
    Some helpful links...
    http://www.rme-audio.de/en/
     
    RME User Forum
    https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/
     
    Don't miss out on DigiCheck... super useful.
    http://www.rme-audio.de/en/downloads/driver/digicheck.php
     

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #6
    Genghis
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    Re: RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400 2018/02/17 19:19:29 (permalink)
    I use Studio One, and they added in the capability to use the low buffer setting only on tracks that you are monitoring, like soft synths or maybe a vocal track you are recording while monitoring with verb and delay, while playing back the tracks that you have already recorded at a higher setting.  Can't remember what it's called, dropout protection or something like that.  I set that to high and it basically syncs up your playback at 1024 while the live monitored tracks are 64 buffers.  Now that I have that feature I can't imagine getting by without it. :)
     
    I'll check out those links as well.  I do have the main company links, but I don't think I ever joined the forum.  Been a long time since i even lurked there, but that's basically because their stuff just works and you don't have to do tons of research to get it to work.
     
    Thanks, and can't wait to get this thing fired up now!

    They call 'em fingers, but I've never seen 'em fing. 
    My Music is Here
    Studio Cat DAW
    #7
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400 2018/02/19 18:46:55 (permalink)
    Several DAW applications are doing the same type of "Hybrid buffering" (Logic has done it for ages, ProTools, StudioOne, etc)... where are large processing buffer is used to tracks that are just playing back... and a small buffer is used for tracks that are being monitored in realtime.
    Makes sense... as it makes much better use of the CPU.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #8
    emeraldsoul
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    Re: RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400 2018/02/19 22:10:35 (permalink)
    I made a similar switch about 6 months ago. I think you will like it! Although my UFX II just works with USB 2.0
     
    I also use studio one 3. Lots and lots of tracks, and the soundcard sounds great. It's slightly but not dramatically superior in the sonics, but I could tell a difference and all works well so far.

    A work in regress:
    www.studiusinterruptus.com
     
    Cornbread - video   audio
    A Very, Very Troubled Soul - video   
    Kilometers Davis - video   audio
    Mayans (Face in the Crowd) - video  audio
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    #9
    Genghis
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    Re: RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400 2018/02/19 22:22:35 (permalink)
    Thanks emeralsoul.  Good to hear the practical experience is good.  I'm sure it is going to be killer.
     
    And Jim, I had heard that Logic had a similar feature.  My favorite DAW builder only sells PCs, so I've stuck with the PC options over the years. :)  No intention of switching, but I will be in touch in a few years if and when I start to feel the need to upgrade to a Thunderbolt setup.

    They call 'em fingers, but I've never seen 'em fing. 
    My Music is Here
    Studio Cat DAW
    #10
    Genghis
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    Re: RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400 2018/02/21 18:28:12 (permalink)
    I just thought of a question that Jim may know the answer for... while I'm sure I'll have great performance using this via USB 3, I was kind of wondering if my current board would support an add-on PCIe Thunderbolt card and if it would make much of a difference if so. 
     
    Current PC is:
    StudioCat DAW with Asrock X97 Pro Chipset and I think it's a 4700k i7 CPU.  Of course I didn't type this out while I was in front of that computer early this morning, I'm doing it from another.

    I looked in the BIOS and there was an option to enable Thunderbolt, but I know it's not actually built onto the board.  Just wanted to check and see if it is possible.

    Thank you

    They call 'em fingers, but I've never seen 'em fing. 
    My Music is Here
    Studio Cat DAW
    #11
    gswitz
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    Re: RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400 2018/02/24 04:10:21 (permalink)
    Just get your interface and enjoy it with usb before spending more. I'm sure it will be terrific.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #12
    Genghis
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    Re: RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400 2018/02/24 05:07:37 (permalink)
    Yeah, it will be fine with USB3 on this one.  I had a couple of emails with Jim and he confirmed that I need a new board, etc to be compatible, and also said that USB3 is great with the UFX+ until I decide to get a new DAW.  I'm at least a couple of years til my next DAW upgrade, and want to make this one last even longer than that.  I'm hoping this interface will last me as long as the FF400 has, and I'm sure there is enough use left out of the FF400 that the next owner will find it nice as well.

    They call 'em fingers, but I've never seen 'em fing. 
    My Music is Here
    Studio Cat DAW
    #13
    tlw
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    Re: RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400 2018/02/24 12:18:59 (permalink)
    My UFX is quite capable of very low round-trip latency over firewire (using a TB to firewire adaptor) and USB3.

    I really doubt any reduction TB may manage to deliver would be noticeable in real world terms.

    Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board,
    ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre.
    Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
    #14
    Genghis
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    Re: RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400 2018/02/27 09:45:51 (permalink)
    The UFX+ arrived Monday afternoon. I have some important family things going on, so I had limited time and so far have only had a chance to play a few tracks that I recorded with the other interface. I played around with it for awhile and figured out some basics and went to bed.  Naturally midnight insomnia kicked in and instead of waking up and snacking, I got up and did some more listening and a little mixing.
     
    Small issue out of the box.  It would play through a song in Studio One, and when it would finish and rewind to the beginning it had this horrible, harsh noise that would play until you close Studio One, and it would close with a crash.  Never happened on the old FireFace 400.  I double-checked that I had the latest driver, and noticed that they had a firmware update utility that I hadn't downloaded previously.  I ran that, and found that it was pretty outdated right out of the box, and the firmware update cleared things up completely.  I'm guessing the driver was a few versions newer than the firmware and it may have caused a conflict.
     
    In playing back a few songs, I thought it sounded a bit different, like maybe the stereo imaging was better, highs a bit smoother and mids more detailed.  I have also been using a Presonus headphone amp what my mains were also running through, and since this has two headphone outputs, I figured I'd try connecting everything directly and bypass the headphone amp.  Even better than I first thought.  This thing sounds amazing.  I don't think I ever quite realized how much that little box changed the sound, but it took things to a whole different level removing it from the chain.
     
    On the topic of low-latency and buffer settings: this thing has no problem with handling a setting of 32 samples.  I did happen to notice that the reported round-trip latency in Studio One was insanely low at 64 samples:
    • 6.08 ms for audio and 4.24 for instruments.
    At 32 samples, I think the audio was slightly lower and the instruments was slightly higher, but it really wasn't enough to even be concerned about, so 64 it is for me.
     
    I may not have time to really dig into doing any recording until the weekend, but yeah, I like this interface.  They actually improved on the old tech I've been happy with for years, and I have a feeling this thing is going to last me quite a long time.

    They call 'em fingers, but I've never seen 'em fing. 
    My Music is Here
    Studio Cat DAW
    #15
    gswitz
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    Re: RME UFX+ vs FireFace 400 2018/02/27 17:36:50 (permalink)
    Yay

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #16
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