RNC 1773 Compressor

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charlyg
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2015/07/08 22:03:19 (permalink)

RNC 1773 Compressor

So...if a guy happened to pick up a real nice compressor, where and how should it be used with Sonar, or not....
 
I had to overcome my aversion to hardware to see what the buzz is, and to be able to see and hear any differences from all the plugin stuff.
post edited by charlyg - 2015/07/08 22:11:19

 
 
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    Beagle
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    Re: RNC 1773 Compressor 2015/07/09 09:00:33 (permalink)
    it depends on what you're recording.
     
    I have a compressor on each vocal line going into my DAW.  I've found vocals to usually have the most dynamic swing out of all instruments I record.  they go last in the chain before the soundcard.  MIC>PREAMP>COMPRESSOR

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    #2
    charlyg
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    Re: RNC 1773 Compressor 2015/07/09 09:28:31 (permalink)
    How does that take advantage of the Nice button? Plus, you've now got compression on what should be(at least as far as I know with my limited knowledge) a clean track ready for compression at the different stages in the DAW?

     
     
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    batsbrew
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    Re: RNC 1773 Compressor 2015/07/09 11:52:29 (permalink)
    a compressor can do several things, when used in the front end....
     
    controls the dynamic range
    eq's
    de-esses
    limits
    set up as a side chain, can be a trigger to bring something down when something else happens.
     
    there are many tutorials about how to use compression,
    and it takes a long time, and lots of experimentation, to get it all down.
     
    i use compression lightly, and in many steps...
    like applying coats of paint.
     
    too much at one level, is a bad thing.
     
     
    people will also say one compressor sucks, and another is awesome, but most of the time it just boils down to the fact that they really didn't know how to use it.
     
     
     
    from a website:
     
    When set to Super Nice mode, the RNC engages three cascading compression stages that use aspects of peak-, average-, and RMS-sensing technologies. All of the controls still function — Super Nice mode isn't a preset — but they affect the sound more subtly. This mode takes a much gentler approach and was designed to be particularly effective on program material. However, it also works well on many individual instruments and on any source for which smooth, transparent compression is desirable. Surprisingly, even with three compressors chained together, the RNC in Super Nice mode is still remarkably quiet.
     
     

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    charlyg
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    Re: RNC 1773 Compressor 2015/07/09 11:56:30 (permalink)
    Ok then!

     
     
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    Beagle
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    Re: RNC 1773 Compressor 2015/07/09 12:39:46 (permalink)
    charlyg
    How does that take advantage of the Nice button? Plus, you've now got compression on what should be(at least as far as I know with my limited knowledge) a clean track ready for compression at the different stages in the DAW?


    The "nice button" simply puts 3 compressors in series to reduce artifacts of using 1 compressor at higher compression settings.  the nice button has nothing to do with where I put the compressor in the chain, it's more about using MORE compressors at that location in the chain in series.
     
    as far as putting it on a "clean track ready for compression at different stages in the DAW" I have no idea what you mean by that.
     
    first - a mic preamp signal going into the soundcard is very dynamic.  if you're saying "clean" in this case means not dynamic then you are misinformed.  if you're saying you don't want compression on the mic signal until after you've got it in the box and want to use VST compression, that's your choice.  in which case...why did you buy the hardware compressor?
     
    second - I really don't understand what you mean by "ready for compression at the different stages in the DAW"?  compression can be added before the recorded signal, after the recorded signal inside sonar, it can be sent and returned and mixed in as a wet/dry send/return signal with different ratios...there are many ways to use it.  I told you the way I use it (and I assure you I'm not alone - I doubt ANY professional recording studio will record vocals without a compressor on the signal before the converters.
     
    so again I must ask...what purpose did you buy the compressor for? 

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    charlyg
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    Re: RNC 1773 Compressor 2015/07/09 13:11:22 (permalink)
    Because folks here said that they preferred hdwr compressors. I wanted to find out if I could tell the difference to see if I really needed one or not. RNC seemed like one I could buy used and resell for about the same as I got it for.....Trying to get most bang for buck on any more outlay. I am pretty sure I have more than enough software to get by.... 
     
    Stages - a little after the input, a little more at the buss maybe and then on mixdown....
     
    Seems to me it's.....where......when.......how much..... They all affect it differently, or that's what I was told.....
     
    I'm a noob, so don't expect a "perfect" answer....

     
     
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    Beagle
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    Re: RNC 1773 Compressor 2015/07/09 13:31:23 (permalink)
    they can be used at many different stages, as I mentioned.  putting a hardware compressor on any signal, vocals, guitar, bass, keyboards, acoustic drums are all normal practices to smooth the signal out some before it goes into the converters (soundcard).  there's nothing that says you can't use a compressor in the DAW after it's recorded, either, in fact, it's also a typically normal practice to compress more than once.
     
    you can also use it in parallel with the signal.  if you look at the PC compressor that comes with sonar, it has a wet/dry knob.  basically what that means is that this compressor is being used in parallel with the incoming signal.  basically it splits the signal in two, compresses one of them and then you mix them both back together using the wet/dry knob.  the dry is the uncompressed signal, the wet is 100% compressed (at the settings you made).
     
    or as a send/return.  send return is very similar to parallel.  you are still mixing a wet/dry signal together going into the soundcard, but you're using the compressor like an effect instead of in series like I mention I am using it above.
     
    most people probably use compressors in series like I mention above for typical home recording use (and even typical professional studio use in most cases).  signal >compressor>converters
     
    most people would only use LIGHT compression settings for this setup because you don't want to overcompress going into the DAW - you can always over compress INSIDE the DAW if you want, but once it's recorded, you can't ever take the compression back OUT of it!

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    #8
    charlyg
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    Re: RNC 1773 Compressor 2015/07/09 13:38:41 (permalink)
    That's why I questioned putting ANY on the input. Its' there for the duration.. But I can see how a little bit on the vocal could help with overall dynamics.

     
     
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    Beagle
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    Re: RNC 1773 Compressor 2015/07/09 13:51:42 (permalink)
    right - that's why I only use VERY light settings. usually 1.5:1 or 2:1 at the most ratio with a slow attack (unless I've got a singer with high plosives or sudden bursts of dBLs being pushed!)

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    charlyg
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    Re: RNC 1773 Compressor 2015/07/09 14:01:45 (permalink)
    ARRT, correct?
     
    Adjust in order, attack, release, ratio, and lastly threshold..

     
     
    #11
    Beagle
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    Re: RNC 1773 Compressor 2015/07/09 14:35:22 (permalink)
    yep - at least that's what Jeff Evans recommends!
     
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/How-to-set-up-a-compressor-properly-m2116921.aspx

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    batsbrew
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    Re: RNC 1773 Compressor 2015/07/09 15:44:58 (permalink)
    charlyg
    ARRT, correct?
     
    Adjust in order, attack, release, ratio, and lastly threshold..




    actually,
    this is not true.
     
    because,
    as you effect your threshold, your attack will probably have to change.
     
    and as you effect your attack,
    your release will change.
     
    which will force you to reevaluate your ratio,
    which will make you change your threshold....
     
    and back and forth and back and forth,
    until you nail it!!
     
     
    LOL
     
     
    in other words, every parameter messes with the other parameters.
     
     
    time, and experience, will somewhat inform you as to what to expect, so you can eventually shortcut a lot of your 'common' settings on specific tracks...
     
     
    but as i said before, i use hardware compression AND software,
    and usually in multiple levels (hardware going in, comp on individual track, comp on busses, comp on master.)
     
    but as others have said, i use them very lightly, with the knowledge that they will add up a certain way, 
    and i try to steer the collective in that direction.
     
     
    now, look up UPWARDS COMPRESSION...
     
    and take an excedrin.
    ;)

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    #13
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