Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass

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awilki01
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2006/03/30 00:01:02 (permalink)

Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass

I'm listening to the following Rapture sample that was posted in the P5 forum:

http://www.totcproductions.com/download/mp3/FG-RaptureFATintro-NoDrums.mp3


I'm trying to understand the dynamics behind this bass sound so I can learn and use the technique in the future. Can anyone give me some tips on how to construct something like this? Just lead me in the right direction and I'll research the rest.... Are there any 'tricks of the trade' to make a fat bass sound?

Thanks,

Adam
post edited by awilki01 - 2006/03/30 00:09:21
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16 Replies Related Threads

    Frank@ProSounds
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/01 18:31:45 (permalink)
    Hi awiki01!

    There are some 'tricks' I used to get that sound from Rapture. First off, you can start by going into the preset browser and loading the JP Super Saw 2 preset (made by ur's truly. It's in the KEYS preset folder. Disect that patch, and you'll get the beginnings of what you heard in the clip. Key things to note are the multiple oscillators, lots of detuning (mainly from the unison feature, but also from the fine tuning of each oscillator), heavy low pass filter settings on each element with the resonance set to about half, plenty of panning, and some strategic EQing, and lastly, the use of 1 square waveform and 5 different saw waveforms. Now, to get the sound in the clip, I first adjusted the length of the filter sweep (via the cutoff 1 envelope) for each element to match the timing of the songs introduction. Next, I modified the EQ and filter settings to bring out the low-mid frequencies so the sound will really "tear" through your speakers. Finally, I added a band reject filter on each element to further shape the sound and carefully cut out some 'thinning' mid-high frequencies. Poof! Big FAT sound. :) I'll post the exact preset from the clip up here in a few minutes so you can all disect both presets and compare them...my explanation is a little vague I know, but i've gotta get out of the studio and get some dinner. :)

    I'll post that patch up asap

    Peace,

    Frank
    #2
    awilki01
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/01 21:20:16 (permalink)
    Thanks! I look forward to it. Due to my lack of experience with all of this, I find reverse engineering the existing presets the best way for me to learn.

    Thanks again!

    Adam
    #3
    Frank@ProSounds
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/02 21:48:24 (permalink)
    Ok sir, sorry for the delay.

    Here's the preset used in the song:

    SooperSawBass

    Tear it apart. :) The notch filter really gives it that 'creamy-mid-frequency' sound...that and the detuning. Also, note that the key that plays on the intro clip is C1. Careful with your monitors....if you're using regular computer speakers, or anything else hi-fi, turn them down a bit before you play this. I did strap the limiter on to protect everybody, but the low frequencies on the note will rattle your eardrums loose at the right volume. :)

    Lastly, I forgot, the only Rapture EQ setting used on this preset is a tiny raise in band 3 on the global page. So other than that, it's pure Rapture clogging those arteries. ;)

    If you need any more help, please feel free to drop me a line.

    Peace,

    Frank
    post edited by Frank@ProSounds - 2006/04/02 21:55:34
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    b rock
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/03 00:24:21 (permalink)
    Tear it apart.
    Sounds good, Frank. Thank you.

    But just to clarify for anyone following through: I didn't see any notch (band reject) filters in either patch. Two low-pass filters in series, with different pole configurations. LP & HP, I could undertand. Not in the sense of an EQ notch, either, except in the Global of the parent patch. Maybe I missed something, but I just want to solidify that for the reverse engineers. I'm not trying to be a thorn.

    One more thing to point out to those who grab this: if you download this patch 'outside' of the subfolder structure in Rapture (I favor that approach), the patch won't show up immediately in the Program Browser. You can drag & drop the patch in (Cool!), but you need to then save it from within Rapture's internal program file handling.

    I guess that I do have one question, Frank. More of a fine point. Pitch LFO's are sync'ed to tempo. In effect, different 'vibrato' speeds that are dependent on current BPM. I never do that myself with this parameter. Do you mind if I ask about the decision-making process behind that?
    #5
    Paradroid
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/03 00:48:29 (permalink)
    Do you mind if I ask about the decision-making process behind that?

    Duck for cover! Here come the BPM Police!
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    b rock
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/03 00:52:05 (permalink)
    Now, to get the sound in the clip, I first adjusted the length of the filter sweep (via the cutoff 1 envelope) for each element to match the timing of the songs introduction.
    Now here's your point of attack, Dale. From the (non-sync'ed) flank.
    Here come the BPM Police!
    I thought that I asked very nicely.
    post edited by b rock - 2006/04/03 01:03:33
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    Frank@ProSounds
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/03 02:32:34 (permalink)
    Hi B-Rock,

    Yes, I must apologize. I've misled you all. I was thinking of when I was first making adjustments to it in the arrangement. I just uploaded it without looking at it. hehe. I initially had alot of EQ's on (you can see in the global page that they are set specifically but not activated, with the exception of the 3rd band). Same with the notch filter...I originally used it to remove some of the high frequencies, as they made the sound a bit flat when the filter opened...but I ended up going with the 1p lowpass to cut them lightly. My mistake. I'll have to edit that post so it reflects the current incarnation of the patch. :D

    Ah, and the BPM syncing....It's a habit gained from making commercial presets. I actually find that most of our customers at Pro-Sounds like everything to match up perfectly with there tempo without having to dive into the patch themselves. I feel this way myself as well. I do see where you're coming from though....However, I've played the patch at tempos ranging from 80bpm to 200bpm, and I personally think it fits the 'motion' of the track better. I suppose it's a matter of personal preference.

    And yes, you did ask very politely. No harm done.

    Lastly, I come bearing small gifts. 4 new bass presets I put together the other day:

    Get them at the following download links: (please don't pass these links out...for forum users only )

    90's Dance Bass

    Crunk Bass

    Rough EBass

    With Teeth

    enjoy!
    #8
    Paradroid
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/03 03:08:45 (permalink)
    Now here's your point of attack, Dale.

    Not one, but two:

    I actually find that most of our customers at Pro-Sounds like everything to match up perfectly with there tempo without having to dive into the patch themselves.

    Keep 'em coming Frank (both the BPM survey data & the patches). I'm sure René doesn't want your customers having to do manual BPM to seconds calculations either, right René?
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    b rock
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/03 10:04:25 (permalink)
    hit F5 to refresh
    Oops! How soon we forget? I appreciate you reminding me (all of us) of the easier alternative, Chad.

    Frank: I can see your point. Commercial presets should be ready for prime-time without any further intervention on the users' end. What made me step back was the very narrow frequency range of standard "non-electronic" vibrato ranges. Then again, if it's vibrato on a bass patch, you're already bucking 'the system' to a certain extent.

    Thanks to both of you for the continued involvement.
    #10
    awilki01
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/03 13:51:32 (permalink)
    Thank you, Frank!!! I see you are using all 6 elements for this one.
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    lawapa
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/03 20:44:41 (permalink)
    Lastly, I come bearing small gifts.


    Frank ;)+) do you have a date as to when you might be selling new patch banks for Rapture?
    #12
    Frank@ProSounds
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/03 22:45:06 (permalink)
    Hi Lawapa,

    Honestly, no. hehe. We don't have any immediate Rapture plans at the moment. This is just because we're currently working on some updates to our soundset range, a new documentation standard for commercial presets (our own at least), and some additions for our own synthesizer. However, I am working on a small collection of presets for Rapture in my spare time that I plan on making freely available to all registered Rapture owners. I'll most likely be submitting them to Rene so they can be released through Cakewalk as a free addition. As far as Pro-Sounds doing a Rapture collection, it's something that will definitely happen (I love working with this synth, the possibilities for it are virtually endless), just not within the next 2 months at least, as I have to work it into our release schedule for the year.

    Peace,

    Frank
    #13
    Rick McNab
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/04 02:25:28 (permalink)
    I know this sound is the most over-discussed, over-copied, and .... well whatever. But please give us the "Jump" OB Brass. That sound alone, with a bit of editing here and there, could be the genesis for a whole generation (early-mid 1980s) of synth sounds revisited w/ Rapture. Could possibly steer me away from the Korg Radias, which is still taking first place in my "fat" category. Show me the just mentioned VH synth brass on MP3 along with 8 or 9 other vintage analog poly brass and strings, and I'm putting in my order ASAP.
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    b rock
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/04 03:48:35 (permalink)
    please give us the "Jump"
    I'm thinking that's close. Off the bridge.
    #15
    Frank@ProSounds
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/04 10:13:24 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Rick McNab

    I know this sound is the most over-discussed, over-copied, and .... well whatever. But please give us the "Jump" OB Brass. That sound alone, with a bit of editing here and there, could be the genesis for a whole generation (early-mid 1980s) of synth sounds revisited w/ Rapture. Could possibly steer me away from the Korg Radias, which is still taking first place in my "fat" category. Show me the just mentioned VH synth brass on MP3 along with 8 or 9 other vintage analog poly brass and strings, and I'm putting in my order ASAP.



    Hi Rick,

    I'm familiar with the sound. I'll have to blow the dust off of that album and take a shot at putting it together in Rapture. I'm more than confident it's capable of it.

    Peace,

    Frank
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    b rock
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    RE: Rapture - Dynamics behind a fat bass 2006/04/04 13:51:48 (permalink)
    "Jump" OB Brass. That sound alone, with a bit of editing here and there, could be the genesis for a whole generation (early-mid 1980s) of synth sounds
    I was a little short in my middle-of-the-night reply, Rick. Sorry: out of character. I've stated before that you could probably construct that patch sound in just about any subtractive-style synth. I'll lay out my take on that approach for anyone interested in trying this out for themselves.

    Two or three square .wav oscillators; preferably with a variable pulse width. Vary the PW in each one progressively, like 15%, 50%, and 65% duty cycles. Leave one at concert pitch, and fine-tune the other two +/- 10 cents in different directions. Globally detune those by 3-5 cents. Add some fixed-time portamento; say 120 ms, but leave that un-enabled by default, and fly it in for effect. All oscillator levels are equal.

    I'd select an OB-style 2-pole lowpass filter to run it through, and set the Cutoff Frequency just about at mid-range. If you're going to add some MIDI variation [more on this later], set the Resonance a bit above mid-point. Otherwise, leave that alone. In the Filter envelope, use a somewhat rapid Attack (~ 10 ms.), a long Decay time (even 30 seconds), an exponential slope to Decay (if you can), and a Hold-type Sustain at about 80% of full level. Release time is also rapid; somewhere around 40 ms.

    The Amplitude envelope can be almost the same organ-like shape, but I'd vary that to mix it up a little. Perhaps an Attack time of 6 ms., a Decay of 20 seconds with linear slope, yet the same Sustain setup and Release time. Now this one is important: you want a quick little "blip" of pitchbend to accompany every Note On attack. Set up a Pitch envelope with a quick 20 ms. Attack, a 5 ms. Decay, and some long Sustain time (20 seconds) with a very rapid release (2 ms.). The Sustain level hovers near zero. It's a characteristic part of the original patch, from what I'm hearing.

    That's about it. It's not that difficult to reproduce with a little quick programming. "Might as well jump-JUMP!" <g>.
    To add some change-ups via MIDI:

    Tie an LFO sine wave at around 6 Hz. from your Mod Wheel (to set the depth) to all three oscillator pitches in a MIDI/Modulation/MIDI Learn matrix of sorts. A little depth goes a long way, but EVH doesn't have the most subtle of vibrato techniques; on either keyboards or guitar. YMMV. With another controller (slider, wheel, etc.), bind that to the filter Cutoff Frequency and Resonance for some sound variations. Careful with the Resonance: I might have the CF control subtract 25% or so from the original base frequency, but only add up to 25% more to the base Resonance setting.

    Really, I hope this helps. If you don't like the results of this patch, it's probably within the filter you're using. That's the potential bottleneck in this patch.

    Edit: I'll confess that I did a quick run-through in hardware, and a fast test in PSYN to come up with this reply. I was looking for transferability. I didn't have much time, but then again it didn't take much time, either.

    Rapture fans: you can use the square .wav or pulse variations in Multisamples instead. I got some great results in a hurry with 3 "square ober" Multisamples and varying the Phase of two of them. Construct your Pitch, Amp, and Cutoff Envelopes once, and copy & paste those to the other two Elements. Don't forget to turn on the LP 2p filter in each one as you go.
    post edited by b rock - 2006/04/04 15:14:01
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