Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!!

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elle
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2006/02/03 19:12:04 (permalink)

Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!!

I'm so really upset.. after watching the Rapture video and listening to Rapture's preview here... I'm so really disappointed.. Just wanna cry WHY to Cakewalk... WHY?? Is it SO hard to bundle so perfect-sounding synth with USEFUL presets. But not that weird stuff you can hear in demos...
I wonder, if anybody in Cakewalk ever heard the music for which this synth is created for... Just want to know WHY create 54 oscillators... if it seems like they never used in preset list.. well at least in those, provided in the demos... I wonder if Cakewalk knows what Trance or House music is. I wonder if one of them ever was on the Trance or House party. I wonder if Cakewalk know what FAT sound is and WHO needs it.
I wonder if Cakewalk realize differences between Psy/Goa and commercial club trance? And between the former and those presets you can find in demos??? It feels like playing a toyish little piano and a real concert Steinway? Rapture is not the case for toyish pinao emulation. It's supposed to be a powerful dance Steinway. And its architecture and sound quality are perfect for this purpose.
But it's so SAD.. that I really want to cry... watching this monster dying cos it's so poor preset-bundled.. Was it really hard to contact Vengeance??? Synthology??? Or other well-known trance and house sound producers? The same goes bout other electronic styles like drum'n'bass. Anyway, YOU HAVE TO choose the style and provide presets for it. Otherwise they will be too universal to be useful anywhere. z3ta became so popular only because of its killing presets. Whenever your say z3ta most people will imagine its Bank C made by Kira. Surely, synth quality and architecture are important as well. But only all these components together can produce happiness...
Well, I hope I'm wrong... and the synth actually has much more useful presets than those presented... but currently... I really DON't want to buy it... And I really wanted to do that before, reading about 54 osc's and anti-aliasing... :(
WHY???
#1

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    fac
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    RE: Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!! 2006/02/03 19:55:37 (permalink)
    I agree. The presets are ok at best. Cakewalk needs to put out a demo of Rapture if they want to convince people.

    http://facproductions.net

    Lots of gear. Not enough time.
    #2
    René
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    RE: Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!! 2006/02/04 10:18:08 (permalink)
    I'm so really upset.. after watching the Rapture video and listening to Rapture's preview here... I'm so really disappointed.. Just wanna cry WHY to Cakewalk... WHY?? Is it SO hard to bundle so perfect-sounding synth with USEFUL presets. But not that weird stuff you can hear in demos...


    Thanks for your comment. Please let me understand. You are upset because you saw a video featuring, say, five presets, and you didn't like those?



    Otherwise they will be too universal to be useful anywhere. z3ta became so popular only because of its killing presets.


    Well, FWIW many patches in Rapture were created by the same sound designers than z3ta+.


    -René
    #3
    elle
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    RE: Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!! 2006/02/04 18:53:26 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: René
    Thanks for your comment. Please let me understand. You are upset because you saw a video featuring, say, five presets, and you didn't like those?

    Hi, René!!! I'm really-really glad to see u and appreciate the job you do. Always wanted to Thank you very much!!!
    Talking about Rapture presets, I actually was under impression by presets you can find here: http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/Rapture/default.asp - that's not 5.. that's about 50.. and unfortunately I can name only 3 or 4 that I like.. more or less.. it's only 7% - this is TOO little.
    And I really can't understand how 'Good Mood Trance Lead' is anyhow connected with trance music...


    Well, FWIW many patches in Rapture were created by the same sound designers than z3ta+.
    -René

    hmm... We'll see.. Don't know if I should say more... The only way to see is to download the full demo with peroidical sound glithces.. but you know.. Hearing at least 1 of any reFX Vanguard presets defines its use.. I would prefer if Cakewalk synths has the same quility genre-based presets. It doesn't mean club trance stuff forever. It just means 1 quality bank specially adopted for Trance. Anoher one - for D'n'B. Another one again - House... etc.
    The same goes about arps (I hope you remember the discussion on KVR mentioned above) - most people don't need advanced and powerful sequencers built-into the synth. They need powerhorses, that work just the way they should - provide you with standard and EXPECTED results. Cos when you work hard and have to do a mix or even 2 per week, there's NO TIME for experimenting. Select the preset and tune it a bit to be happy with the sound.
    Thus, I've finally found correct words to describe my claims: most presets are too experimental. You won't use them in commercial-oriented production. Well, I love experimenting myself as well... But most don't :( most people want to rock the dancefloor. DJ wants the people shout and "feel so high" - this is dance music. And what is more important - every synth can be used for experimenting, but only a few can be used commercially - that's what finally defines the synth place in history.
    This is why MiniMoog, TB-303, and Virus are the Synths.
    BTW. Have you seen the Virus TI NAMM video??? That's how should synths be presented. This is where you see all its oscillators, detune, and alias-free techniques - they SHOW you features in real time, not write them on the Web.

    PS. René, I'm really sorry if I hurt you with all my thoughts.. I know the DSP theory quite well and can realize what to expect from such a moster like Rapture. And I also understand how much of hard work was done while creating Rapture. And That's why I feel SO SAD... that all its power is streamlined somewhere in the space due-to those presets..
    #4
    Rick McNab
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    RE: Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!! 2006/02/05 04:35:21 (permalink)
    Another comment on the method of demoing these Cake soft-synths:

    I notice other manufacturers (NI, MOTU) have a jukebox function that plays all demo sounds one after the other with no further action required by the user. That allows the user to browse the online literature about the soft synth while listening to the preset sounds in the background. Both Dimension Pro and now Rapture require the user to click each demo (usually only a few seconds) one right after the other. This is not elegant nor user-friendly IMO.

    Another comment - it seems that the sounds vary widely in volume. Maybe the company wants the sounds to appear as un-processed as possible (good), but I don't think a little level compensation would be such a bad thing.

    #5
    lfm
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    RE: Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!! 2006/02/05 06:23:58 (permalink)
    I don't know why, but I can get nothing out of the flashdemo for Rapture.

    Dimension pro demo works, and get some contents in middle.

    The Rapture thing is just black in middle, and button says stop but no sound or preset names.
    #6
    Frunobulax
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    RE: Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!! 2006/02/05 08:44:08 (permalink)
    I had the same problem in Firefox, but I was able to get the demo to work in Explorer.
    post edited by Frunobulax - 2006/02/05 08:48:12
    #7
    bnmoore
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    RE: Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!! 2006/02/05 09:40:40 (permalink)
    It works okay in Firefox 1.5.0.1 with Flash player 8.0.22.0 here.

    Ben N. Moore
    #8
    AT
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    RE: Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!! 2006/02/05 16:18:23 (permalink)
    Actually, I'm more interested in how easy it is to make new sounds, esp. from the presets. I'm not anti-preset and use them, and often times I need to tweak them, sometimes radically. I'll also admit that I often end up wasting hours and don't come up with anything from such radical surgery or baking from scratch. However, often I come up with a sound that works specifically as a riff (main or backing) that doesn't work (sometimes not at all, sometimes as well) with my "Frankensound."

    many synths, esp. the sample playback/sample players (including DimPro and the much aligned groove synth) are great for thowing in "normal" tracks. Z3TA and Sytrus both come with hundreds of presets, so it is easy to find something in almost any genre. Rapture, being new, probably won't come with 500 presets, but, now doubt, will grow with time. Maybe it isn't the right synth for a busy producer, but I would wait for the presets to get finished. The synth already is, probably, and they are now coming up with sounds.

    Hey, Rene, maybe Cake can give out some Beta's if people with come up with 100 presets? Those should go to, of course, worthy individuals on the forum (a highly intelligent, talented and trustworth group).

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    #9
    Frunobulax
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    RE: Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!! 2006/02/05 18:00:26 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: AT

    Rapture, being new, probably won't come with 500 presets

    The news release for Rapture says that it includes 500+ presets.
    http://www.cakewalk.com/Press/01-19-06-Rapture.asp
    #10
    Paradroid
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    RE: Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!! 2006/02/05 22:05:24 (permalink)
    most people don't need advanced and powerful sequencers built-into the synth

    You're being a little unimaginative there… If you look closer, the Step Generators in Rapture aren't just for pitch (i.e. playing notes). They can control anything that the Envelope Generators can control e.g. pitch, amplitude, panning, cutoff (2 filters for Rapture, yay!), resonance, etc. That's power right there… especially when combined with the MIDI matrix, host automation, sfz assignments & sample switching, etc., etc.

    Also, I hear there'll be an abundance of presets so just sit tight and stop jumping to conlusions! It's not aimed at the “Meganerd” brigade (although it will surely satisfy them) so I reckon René & crew won't be skimping on content. Plus, all your regular Dimension content can be loaded into Rapture too. So, for example, you could load up a nice double bass sample set in one element and layer that with an ultra fat sine-wave bass an octave down on another element.

    If you're preset surfing, that kind of experimenting with combinations should be really quick and fun. Plus, patches will be smaller so I reckon we'll see more user swapping and sharing going on (since there aren't the hassles associated with uploading/downloading massive Dimension multisamples…)

    Lastly, if a preset is too “out there”, you can always was switch of the Step Gens and enjoy the raw tone without the arps or whatever…

    Ask yourself, has René ever made anything that was just crap and disapointing?No… of course not.
    #11
    Rick McNab
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    RE: Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!! 2006/02/05 22:28:34 (permalink)
    That's true - Rene has a pretty amazing track record. BTW the Flash demo is working fine for me as well in Firefox.
    #12
    Frunobulax
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    RE: Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!! 2006/02/05 23:05:05 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: bnmoore

    It works okay in Firefox 1.5.0.1 with Flash player 8.0.22.0 here.

    After replacing my v. 7x Flash player with the 8.0.22.0 version, I was able to get the demo to work in Firefox as well.
    #13
    lfm
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    RE: Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!! 2006/02/06 05:39:45 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Frunobulax

    ORIGINAL: bnmoore

    It works okay in Firefox 1.5.0.1 with Flash player 8.0.22.0 here.

    After replacing my v. 7x Flash player with the 8.0.22.0 version, I was able to get the demo to work in Firefox as well.


    It might be something like that then, that stated version 6 of flash does not cut it.

    I tested with a another machine yesterday too, an xp with IE 6 and it was just a black frame.

    Usually there is a popup giving you a chance to updated Flash, but not in this case.

    Another matter might be language. Some stuff is adapted to different languages somehow.
    #14
    CloudWalker
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    RE: Rapture sounds... WHY???!!!!!!! 2006/02/15 01:07:47 (permalink)
    I know we talked about it before Rene, but bring on the Psy/Goa Presets!

    -C W

    Ps: For those who don't know, heres where it was discussed:
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=702392&mpage=2&key=򫬱
    #15
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