Rapture wavetable questions

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Shayne White
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2006/02/18 02:58:36 (permalink)

Rapture wavetable questions

OK, I've looked at the press releases and watched the videos of Rapture...they've been showing off the modulation and filter sections a whole lot, but nobody's explained what the oscillators do. They're wavetable, yeah. Single-cycle or multi-cycle? Can you load your own samples? Can you draw your own samples, like in CreamWare's Vectron? If it's multi-cycle, can you do single-cycle scanning, like in Propellerhead's Maelstrom? Can you stretch and shrink wavetables, like in Vectron? There are many unanswered questions.

Does anyone from Cakewalk care to explain? The alias-free sounds are promising, but if it doesn't have the features I need, it'll be a big let-down. I've been looking for an wavetable synth like Maelstrom that'll allow you to load your own samples, which Maelstrom doesn't do, and is alias-free, which Vectron isn't.

Thanks,

Shayne
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    Paradroid
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    RE: Rapture wavetable questions 2006/02/18 03:35:08 (permalink)
    Single-cycle or multi-cycle?

    You load in external waveforms — plenty ship with Rapture but they're not actually built-in to the player, per se. Whether they're single-cycle or not depends on the waveforms you're loading in. AFAIK, there's no limit to the size of the file you can use as an oscillator although I assume each waveform is interpolated to some arbitary size. René?

    Can you load your own samples?

    Most definitely. All shapes and sizes.

    Can you draw your own samples, like in CreamWare's Vectron?

    Not directly into the GUI. But there's no reason why you can't draw a waveform into you're audio editor and then export for use in Rapture.

    can you do single-cycle scanning, like in Propellerhead's Maelstrom?

    Ooh, I like the sound of that! But, honestly, I have no idea what that means…Care to explain for the less educated?

    Can you stretch and shrink wavetables, like in Vectron?

    Um, ‘stretch’ & ‘shrink’? This happens when you change the pitch (i.e. play notes) or do you mean something else?

    The alias-free sounds are promising

    The Dimension/Rapture resampling engines are probably the best you'll hear. Trust me, no disapointments there!
    #2
    René
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    RE: Rapture wavetable questions 2006/02/18 08:48:53 (permalink)
    OK, I've looked at the press releases and watched the videos of Rapture...they've been showing off the modulation and filter sections a whole lot, but nobody's explained what the oscillators do. They're wavetable, yeah. Single-cycle or multi-cycle?


    The 'oscillators' can be single-cycle wavetables, multi-cycle wavetables, samples (any size, bit depth, samplerate, uncompressed in wav/aiff or compressed in ogg-vorbis) or multisamples (in sfz format).

    Can you load your own samples?


    Yes.

    Can you draw your own samples, like in CreamWare's Vectron?


    Your own wavetables then you mean. There's no GUI functionality to draw. You can draw those in specialized editors and then load those in Rapture.

    If it's multi-cycle, can you do single-cycle scanning, like in Propellerhead's Maelstrom?


    No. That's what makes Maelstrom 'graintable', not wavetable.


    Can you stretch and shrink wavetables, like in Vectron?


    No.


    There are many unanswered questions.


    Really? I overlooked those. Where they are? I'll be glad to answer if I can.


    Does anyone from Cakewalk care to explain? The alias-free sounds are promising, but if it doesn't have the features I need, it'll be a big let-down. I've been looking for an wavetable synth like Maelstrom that'll allow you to load your own samples, which Maelstrom doesn't do, and is alias-free, which Vectron isn't.


    Well, I'm inclined to say that Rapture is not anything like Maelstrom, sorry. It still sounds great though


    -René
    post edited by René - 2006/02/18 08:53:56
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    Rick McNab
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    RE: Rapture wavetable questions 2006/02/18 12:18:01 (permalink)
    Why will it be a letdown? Just buy the synth that has these features you talk about - i.e. Reason w/ Maelstrom, etc.
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    Shayne White
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    RE: Rapture wavetable questions 2006/02/18 13:14:04 (permalink)
    No, it won't be a letdown. Of course I can draw my own samples in an audio editor. What I meant by "stretch and shrink" samples was a feature of Vectron where you can specify how much of a imported sample you want to take, and then it changes pitch accordingly to turn it into a single-cycle wave. You can take a 128- to 1xxx-length sample and it takes care of all necessary adjustments. Without that, the pitch would change depending on how much of the sample you used, and you'd have to figure out how to bring it back up to pitch. Hmm, maybe that'd be a new feature for Rapture 1.1?

    If it doesn't do "graintable" sampling that's OK -- Maelstrom isn't going anywhere!

    Thanks for your answers,

    Shayne
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    Paradroid
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    RE: Rapture wavetable questions 2006/02/18 17:44:51 (permalink)
    If it doesn't do "graintable" sampling that's OK

    ‘Graintable’ — Sounds like something from the local whole foods shop!Seriously, that sounds kinda interesting…
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    lawapa
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    RE: Rapture wavetable questions 2006/02/18 18:58:10 (permalink)
    Granular synthesis is indeed very interesting. Granulab is a granular synth with just a few features but it can show you what a granular synth can do. It can't be midi up and played as per the usual insert into track, it's just a tiny app not a dxi or vst. I use it to capture sounds as it will record it's output. And it's fine for this.

    http://hem.passagen.se/rasmuse/Granny.htm
    #7
    b rock
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    RE: Rapture wavetable questions 2006/02/18 21:07:08 (permalink)
    ‘Graintable’ ... Seriously, that sounds kinda interesting…
    I'm going to go out on a limb here, Dale (yet another limb), and say that you could pull off a limited version of graintable synthesis. Take one fresh P5 arpeggiator, (substitute freely with StepGens), map a ton of sound sources across the keyboard, sprinkle in some judicious opcodes, load up with a fat noisy crowd in .sfz, and in 15 minutes: steaming hot Grain-ola. Serve with ring modulation.
    post edited by b rock - 2006/02/18 21:13:43
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    Paradroid
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    RE: Rapture wavetable questions 2006/02/18 23:25:11 (permalink)
    load up with a fat noisy crowd in .sfz

    Of course, that was always going to be my preferred option. …and I've already prepared some “dark exotica” for you…

    This is an updated version of an experiment I was trying to scare Chad & René with recently: DIY Granular v2.0.

    Probably took me more like 3 or 4 × 15 mins, in all honestly (by the time I'd sliced a hundred or so grains in BeatCreator, knocked up a quick macro in UltraEdit-32 and done a bit of hand editing to the sfz…)

    If you're trying that sucker in P5, keys C2 - B3 play back the sample with the original rhythm. Be sure to try lowering and raising the tempo to hear the full range of the effect.

    Also, sliding the Selection Tool up and down the KB from C5 onwards allows you to do some faux-throat singing. Would be fun on a ribbon strip or linked up to the X-Y Pad.

    Lastly, patching in a pitch randomiser in the MIDI Matrix with a depth of, say, 1 octave and changing the BPM to 15 gets you a nice robotic yodel.

    Oh, one other trick: try changing the ampeg_attack & ampeg_release values in the sfz to get more/less overlap between grains.

    Grain-ola

    Don't talk to me about Granola®… the “non-stocked item” status in Aussie supermarkets is still too hard to come to terms with. Not even the Adventist Bookshop has it anymore…



    Damn! I can't find a box of that magic stuff anywhere.
    post edited by Paradroid - 2006/02/18 23:30:12
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    lawapa
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    RE: Rapture wavetable questions 2006/02/19 00:30:51 (permalink)
    I tried the small section loop in Dimension. Worked like a charm but. What gives gives granular such a distinctive sound is the ability to vary grain length, rate, density, and envelope over time. Imagine if you will Granulab with that lfo section in Rapture. Man that just sends chills. As Inclusive as the sfz format is I don't think the sample parameters can be tied to the lfo section as of yet. But what if it could? Ya set a start time to one lfo, then add another for density, And then vary the grain envelope over time. OOhHHoooo, well maybe the next big Cakewalk creation?

    Do you think Rene and team will stop at Rapture? I somehow don't think that will be the case but I could be wrong. See I can do this in Vocator where I sweep a sample in a random order. So you set a fixed grain size then sweep a sample back and forth over a fixed start and stop point. I don't think anyone is doing this just that way where you tie the sweep rate to that ol lfo. I do like speculating ;)+) Too bad I don't know how to code synths.
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    Shayne White
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    RE: Rapture wavetable questions 2006/02/20 02:21:01 (permalink)
    Hey, I just found CronoX which has many of the features I'm looking for...granular wavescanning and all that. However, it isn't aliasing-free. Still, I was able to make some neat sounds easily with the demo. Both it and Rapture will be awesome additions to my synth collection.
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    Paradroid
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    RE: Rapture wavetable questions 2006/02/20 04:09:06 (permalink)
    However, it isn't aliasing-free.

    A bit of grit and noise is fun every now and then but RGC synths soon make you something of a snob when it comes to aliasing noise.

    It's funny 'cause I never used to hear that stuff but now it seems to jump out at me. My outboard gear (mainly guitar processors) are so rife with aliasing noise on the preamp simulations that I now think of it as part of the effect and exploit it rather than try and hide it.

    Digital sound artifacts… can be a curse or a blessing.

    P.S. — I'm checking out CronoX now…
    #12
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