LockedReaper posing a serious threat to sonar?

Whooooops.

Jason, sorry about the mix-up. That said, if you ever want to start a software company, I wish you the best of luck, too. :-)

And to Justin, if you're lurking: Look what 20 years of this business does to a guy's brain. Give it up now, man, while you still have time.

:-)

ORIGINAL: JTANK

All this heated talk made me go get REAPER.

It might be good some day. But for what I do, manual entry of MIDI notes one at a time with the mouse, REAPER doesn't cut it.

Likewise for me. Am I missing something in Reaper? The "piano roll" (which seems to be the only way to do it in Reaper -- I sort of prefer entering notes in staff view in SONAR) seems to be so basic I couldn't possibly get excited about it based on what it is today. Or have I failed my "Reaper MIDI without a manual" test?

Hehe. As a last comment; since the founder of Cakewalk reply, I think we can call Reaper a "threat". Reaper is becoming ver. 1 now and then its on its own. We'll just wait and see. Both Sonar and Reaper are cool though...:)

ORIGINAL: immprod

Hehe. As a last comment; since the founder of Cakewalk reply, I think we can call Reaper a "threat". Reaper is becoming ver. 1 now and then its on its own. We'll just wait and see. Both Sonar and Reaper are cool though...:)

Sigh.

People live in very small worlds.

Reaper is the epitome, of the mean, lean and efficient DAW. It is a self contained app with a small footprint (about 1.07MB) and does not rely on being on the C drive, in order to operate. In fact, you can install it on a portable thumb drive and run it from there. How cool is that! You can carry around your DAW, on your keychain, the ultimate portable DAW device. Pop it into any computer, launch it and start recording and mixing.

It saddens me that this isn't the case with more software apps. It is really cool when an app can moved to and run out of any folder. It used to "always" be like that. Sometimes I curse the registry, and common files in the windows system32 folder, etc. So much for progress...

So what happens if he gets bored of coding Reaper or tired of whinging users LOL? If the dude has all that dough I'd be worried about attention deficit di$order like a yacht or something. Peace.

If he gives up on further development, will he become the "Grim Reaper"?

Or has someone else already said that?

More like the Grim Spammer. No, wait, that's happening already with all of his shills.

ORIGINAL: glazfolk

ORIGINAL: Rednroll

ORIGINAL: glazfolk

ORIGINAL: sambasevam
the only downside to reaper is...

Well the downside for me is that whenever I try to insert a plug-in while it's playing it crashes the program and produces a goddam awful noise. Sorry, but goodbye and good night on this one!

Geoff

I'm sure you did the same thing with Sonar huh? Ran across one bug within your workflow and said that's enough for me......right. I guess if I did that I'ld still be editing on 2" tape.

Thanks for the open mindedness, I'm sure Sonar works flawlessly and has never crashed on you.

Yes, there have been occasion when Sonar has crashed on me, but they are few and far between. No it is not flawless but on my DAW by and large it is very stable. If it wasn't, I would have abandoned it and changed to something else.

With Reaper on the other hand, it crashes every time I insert a plug-in, any plug-in, while it is playing. Not on the odd occasion, every time. For me, this renders the product unusable. You seem to be blaming me for having this experience, which I find rather strange. Quite possibly I am the only person in the world this happens to. But that doesn't help me.

If I understand it correctly, its bussing, by the way, also appears to let me create a feedback loop, which I find also strange, though I'm not 100% sure that that was the problem - it might have been some other bug.

You posted some information about Reaper for which I thank you. I did try it with an open mind, and have posted the result. Your sracasm really isn't necessary and doesn't do you justice.

I'd be quite happy to try Reaper again some time in the future, but for me, this behaviour on my DAW isn't just "ome bug in my workflow." It renders the product unusable.

Best wishes,
Geoff

Wow!! Do people ever conjuer up a lot in this forum from a few sentences. Geoff, I was just pointing out your closed minded approach. That is all....that's what I stated...I didn't suggest anything more than that. I'm actually surprised I would even have to explain something that I didn't say. If there's a problem with software that I'm using, then I appreciate ANY information of where there are problems and hope they get addressed and fixed. Just like I hope one day Cakewalk will get their fader grouping problem fixed in Sonar, so that it works properly. I've only seen that one since Sonar v4.0, so maybe there are stilll hopes for a Sonar 6 release fix huh?

ORIGINAL: puffer

ORIGINAL: immprod

Hehe. As a last comment; since the founder of Cakewalk reply, I think we can call Reaper a "threat". Reaper is becoming ver. 1 now and then its on its own. We'll just wait and see. Both Sonar and Reaper are cool though...:)

Sigh.

People live in very small worlds.

In this forum you mean...or...What?

Hey folks,

Out of respect for Cakewalk, including all it's employees (not to mention the founder and CEO, who actually posted to this thread ...gulp!), how 'bout we all just stop posting to this thread, and take this discussion to the Reaper forum, or elsewhere? Seems to me Cakewalk has been more than fair to leave this thread open and accessible, and worthy of our respect.

Thanks.

-mr moon

yes, more than fair

in fact if he deleted the thread, I dont think anyone would cry foul

can someone start a flamewar in the appropriate forum so we can call out the dumbnutzes in this thread please :)

prolly a good idea.

as far as midi features, if you look at what is happening for 1.0 -- you will see some of the midi features are being held off for version 1.

By the way, I started Cakewalk as one guy with $4,000 of friends and family financing. I wrote the code, I packed boxes, I did tech support on the phone. I somehow sold enough to keep going, and it slowly grew over the years. I enjoyed those early days when it was just me writing the code. So I think I understand what you're doing, and why, because I did it all myself almost 20 years ago. It's a lot of fun, and I wish you luck pursuing it as long as it's still fun for you.

WOW! I am honored to have paid for part of your pool and house ---

I am only kidding -- it's cool too see the big people post on here

To answer the original poster's question, I don't think SONAR needs to fear the Reaper.
Sonar is a very mature and refined audio host app with a lot, of years of development behind it. There is already a bonafide x64 version too. Once SONAR 6 is formally announced, in a few weeks, we will all be talking about it and all the new features, for months to come and not Reaper, I can guarantee you that.
OTOH, Reaper is a novel concept and I think it will find it's niche and hopefully, over the years mature, into it's own identity and user base. I think initially, it's niche market will be those users who are looking for a portable DAW that is affordable, non-CP intrusive, incredibly efficient with a small self-contained footprint that you can use within minutes, if not seconds, of installing it. For the ulitmate in portability, install it on your USB thumbdrive and put it on your keychain. Plug it into any computer with a USB port and within minutes, if not seconds, you could be recording or mixing. You never even have to install it on a computer, as it will run from any portable drive. For remote recording it should be ideal.

So enough, of Reaper, when are we going to get the juicy details, on SONAR 6!

I didn't read the whole thread......... but I did check out Reaper..... Downloaded it, did a song.... a quick one. I too don't believe Cakewalk.... Sonar in particualr has anything to fear.

I actually fing it quite a bit insulting as a Sonar user that this thread is even here SAMBAS......

I checked the Logic Forum..... Reaper isn't brought up..... checked Cubase.net, and Nuendo's forum.... not there either.

It's really insulting... how people complain about the "ugly" GUI of Sonar, but offer this, or Abbleton, or Samplitude as an alternative.

Is there any reason a person should spend $600 on Sonar instead of getting Reaper for free?? If you are doing your thing, writing songs or whatever, then no.... do your thing. Just don't get all snotty about it, since the rest of us wasted our money......

How much will the reasonable cost be?

I find it very interesting which threads Cakewalk staff choose to comment on.


Very interesting indeed!!!!

ORIGINAL: OldGeezer

You can just right-click on the plugin name and choose to float the window...?

I've tried that too. 1). Too much work. 2). Once you close it, to open it, you have to open the VST window, then select float the window again. 1).

Really, energy-xt is the only sequencer _I_ have seen so far that handles VST viewing. It has tabs on the top screen for VSTs(or anything for that matter) so you get the ENTIRE screen space for just one vst! You can tab how many ever vsts you want! Now, THATs revolutionary. :)

ORIGINAL: thunderkyss

I didn't read the whole thread......... but I did check out Reaper..... Downloaded it, did a song.... a quick one. I too don't believe Cakewalk.... Sonar in particualr has anything to fear.

I actually fing it quite a bit insulting as a Sonar user that this thread is even here SAMBAS......

I checked the Logic Forum..... Reaper isn't brought up..... checked Cubase.net, and Nuendo's forum.... not there either.

It's really insulting... how people complain about the "ugly" GUI of Sonar, but offer this, or Abbleton, or Samplitude as an alternative.

Is there any reason a person should spend $600 on Sonar instead of getting Reaper for free?? If you are doing your thing, writing songs or whatever, then no.... do your thing. Just don't get all snotty about it, since the rest of us wasted our money......

First, cool down. I didnt start this thread to start a fight. I just wanted sonar folks' opinion on this. Reaper IS a cool program. So is sonar. Looking at reaper's features, i thought it might pose a considerable threat to sonar. That was MY opinion. I wanted yours (well not YOURS, thank you).

Second, i'm not making any money at the moment. I "make" money doing gigs twice or thrice a year. I dont think i was snotty at all. If so, i apologise. I'm free to voice MY opinion, and so are you. But if you take this thing too seriously, you need to get a life.

<edit> and FWIW, i was a sonar fan first. Now, i'm an energy-xt + reaper fan as well.
Peace out.

While I agree that if you need the subset of features that reaper provides, you may be OK, my original point is still correct. The devil is in that last 20% that will bring it up to the level that the rest of teh DAWs are at.

A professional DAW needs to be extremely proficient at

a) Audio
b) Midi (driving hardware synths)
c) Software Synths

Right now reaper appears to be quite good at A, sorely lacking in B&C (again, compared to competition, and I understand how young the product is). Personally, I couldn't begin to think about switching over, as i'd lose tons of features I"m used to having.

I'm not putting the product down at all, once it matures (which will take years :) ) it may be a contender.

My point is simply that the only silly talk in this thread is that reaper at 2 months old is in the same league as Sonar.

If reaper is actually sufficient for your recording needs, then you've potentially bought software above and beyond what you actually needed, in which case, you *may* be considered silly also

-Eric

ORIGINAL: pipelineaudio

ORIGINAL: Sonifferous

Reaper seems light years away from being any threat to any of the major DAWs.

This reminds me of when Traction came out and everyone thought *that* was going to be the DAW killer, same with Orion, Live, and any of the other up-and-coming apps.

Since he was able to write his DAW from scratch, he intelligently took alot of Sonars core routing features and added them initially to his program, which of course, is the major upside to starting later, learning from other peoples mistakes, and also implementing other peoples ideas immediately.

The problem is that developing software does not follow a linear timeline/graph over time. As the program becomes more complex, the time it takes to add features while maintaining backwards compatibility becomes exponential in nature. While I have no doubt reaper will become 80% of what the major DAWs are rather quickly, thats not a big deal, the devil is in that last 20%.

That said, I"m def keeping an eye on this, in 4-5 years this looks like it could def be a contender.

This is just silly-talk

While looking for the new daw to replace Vegas, many of us contended that without mouse wheel zoom, sonar was just too slow to use in front of a customer.

But many saw beyond that and did just fine with sonar, the slower editing was probably made up for in some way by some of Sonar's other features

But to suggest reaper isnt useable or a contender, not just now, but for the last two months (half of its existence) is just silly talk

It FLIES as an editor and its routing allows stuff that I thought I had to give up when I left the hardware world years ago

ORIGINAL: .

3 updates per day? Sounds like a nightmare of problems.

Yeah, I like the one update and a new version model alot better.

ORIGINAL: Sid Viscous

ORIGINAL: .

3 updates per day? Sounds like a nightmare of problems.

Yeah, I like the one update and a new version model alot better.

ouch!

ORIGINAL: Greg Hendershott [Cakewalk]

By the way, I started Cakewalk as one guy with $4,000 of friends and family financing. I wrote the code, I packed boxes, I did tech support on the phone. I somehow sold enough to keep going, and it slowly grew over the years. I enjoyed those early days when it was just me writing the code. So I think I understand what you're doing, and why, because I did it all myself almost 20 years ago. It's a lot of fun, and I wish you luck pursuing it as long as it's still fun for you.

Greg Hendershott
Founder & CEO
Cakewalk

Congrats on the success story Greg. As others have said, it's great to see the faces behind the Cakewalk company. Keep up the good work -- I'm behind you all the way, even if I do get vocal about a few gripes from time to time. (Just chalk it up to light-hearted jealousy that I can't code an app myself...)

ORIGINAL: kb420

I find it very interesting which threads Cakewalk staff choose to comment on.


Very interesting indeed!!!!

I'm not sure what the implication here is...

ORIGINAL: Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]

ORIGINAL: kb420

I find it very interesting which threads Cakewalk staff choose to comment on.


Very interesting indeed!!!!

I'm not sure what the implication here is...

Damned if you do
Damned if you don't , they say...

I'm not sure what the implication here is...

No offense but click here for an example. Not one response from the synth gurus that actually work for the bakers. Heck we even got new patches before a bug is fixed.

have a good one
3Eo

ORIGINAL: Sonifferous

While I agree that if you need the subset of features that reaper provides, you may be OK, my original point is still correct. The devil is in that last 20% that will bring it up to the level that the rest of teh DAWs are at.

A professional DAW needs to be extremely proficient at

a) Audio
b) Midi (driving hardware synths)
c) Software Synths

Only if you are recording MIDI. A lot of us Vegas guys that were considering SONAR, especially the newer sonars with the vegas keystroke imports dont do any midi at all. As an audio editor, REAPER at the very least holds its own, and I would argue is MUCH faster, but wed have to meet in person and have us a little race to see that for sure

ORIGINAL: Greg Hendershott [Cakewalk]
And to Justin, if you're lurking: Look what 20 years of this business does to a guy's brain. Give it up now, man, while you still have time.

:-)

Too late, my brain (and personal life as well) has deteriorated too far already!

Glad to see someone with a sense of humor in this business, a lot of other people I've talked to have had their heads up their asses..

Cheers,

Justin

Hey I told y'all Greg really does exist. "Reaper" regardless of the minds (and bucks) behind it, will have a very difficult row to hoe. This is an extremly compitive market these days, with something new everyday. That's leaving out the advances in "Industry Standards". For myself, Reaper nowhere near cuts the mustard, it would be like going to an orgy with ED. Or a shootout at the OK, with a squirt gun. I assure you there is stuff from the major players (being Sonar etc) that will just ring your bell. It will be years, if ever before Reaper is in the "major player" or "can only do that in" catagory..................

Careful, John, you'll be told you've got a "closed mind."
Best.
Geoff

PS Haven't forgotten your other question will email ... soonish!

ORIGINAL: johndale

Hey I told y'all Greg really does exist. "Reaper" regardless of the minds (and bucks) behind it, will have a very difficult row to hoe. This is an extremly compitive market these days, with something new everyday. That's leaving out the advances in "Industry Standards". For myself, Reaper nowhere near cuts the mustard, it would be like going to an orgy with ED. Or a shootout at the OK, with a squirt gun. I assure you there is stuff from the major players (being Sonar etc) that will just ring your bell. It will be years, if ever before Reaper is in the "major player" or "can only do that in" catagory..................

How many more years till sonar gets mousewheel zoom?

Then maybe it can play in the same leagues as reaper

If we want to talk like silly nilly's anyhow

With the Belkin n52, the mousewheel zoom is irrelevant anyway. Check out the any Secret shortcuts thread for details.

The n52 solves this issues and countless others for Sonar and just about any other app you use -- for around $30-40.

whoa that IS pretty trick! Is it a mouse as well? Like you roll it around?

No...it's just a game pad. But it works quite well in tandem with my two-mouse setup (one trackball + one normal mouse -- trackball set to track fast, mouse to track really slow for fine edits)

It's really quite somethin', considering it's available at your local BestBuy/CompUSA. I love Belkin. I thought I loved them BEFORE I found this thing.....now I KNOW they are one of my favorite tech companies.

How many more years till sonar gets mousewheel zoom?

I don't know. Sonar is secondary these days to me, I'm a SAW Studio user................

ORIGINAL: Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]

ORIGINAL: kb420

I find it very interesting which threads Cakewalk staff choose to comment on.


Very interesting indeed!!!!

I'm not sure what the implication here is...

Let me clarify.

There have been innumerable threads on this forum and the P5 forum about Sonar and P5's quantization issues. A quick search of the word "quantize" will yield plenty of results. I believe that the frequency of the topic over numerous threads should have warrented a response from Cakewalk. This thread is the FIRST one that I have seen discussing Reaper, but there have been RESPONSES FROM TWO CAKEWALK PERSONNEL!

Let's take a deeper look at this. Reaper isn't a Cakewalk product at all. Some here feel that it shows promise, others don't. It's a reletively new product. Why would that gain the attention of Cakewalk personnel, but a function request that has resurfaced time and time again not?

Certainly the topic has been discussed enough to warrant some type of response. I can't see why or how Reaper caught your eye, but recording quantization didn't!?!?!?!?

Even a negative response would denote that our concerns had been acknowledged!!!!!!

Interesting!

Very interesting indeed!!!!!!

I've been watching this thread and I've gone to visit the forum where the creator of Reaper has provided a place for it to be discussed. I've been known to tout a program and loop producers and to proclaim their benefit to the SONAR community. I personally think Cakewalk and SONAR is the best Sequencer/Audio recording program out there. But even though I own Vegas, I have never felt the need to go to the SONY site and promote a competitors product.

Part of my decision making when choosing a product is a thing call integrity. Evidently, some folks believe that if someone hasn't provided something they've asked for in a time span of their chosing then they can forget this thing called integrity. Remember, integrity is how you act when you think no one is looking. Well, there's a lot of people watching.

If this is how the creator of Reaper, and the folks who support his vision, do business, I don't want to be a part of them nor have anything to do with his product. I call upon him to reign in his folks. Take this back to the Reaper forum , please. It is in bad taste.

I ask as a licensed customer of Cakewalk products, that the moderators of this forum lock this thread and move it to the Off Topic area.

This is a User's forum, not a "how to" support forum. It always has been users helping users here. It's kinda iceing on the cake (no pun intended) when the "bakers" come around. If you feel you need to get some "one on one" the support number will fix you up, so they say. I've been using 12 Tone Products for over 10 years and I've called support once, to retrieve a serial # I lost. They were great, no problem. Also the mods I think get tired of us acting like insane children at times. I know I've been a handfull at times over the years, I hate software theives, there are a couple companys out there I feel are scammers and I've let everyone know on occasion. I think this forums a great place. I come here just to help sincere nubees a lot and I also have a lot of friends here. Sonar is a great product and it does do as advertised, more than I can say for some. Why is my main platform SAW Studio these days? After you do this long enough you get to where you know exactly what you need and SAW was it for me. Sonar to me is the best bang out there. You have everything in one program to do a good job recording, great effects and Softsynths included. The MIDI is as featured and is as flexable as any out there. I could go on. But the important thing is from Greg on down Cakewalk is commited to giving us a full featured, stable product at price you do not need a second mortgage to meet. KB, in closing the support is here, all you need to do is ask. And the Sonar icon is right next to the SAW one on my desktop...............

Dave, I was replying to the guy above you, in case you were wondering..........................

ORIGINAL: Mod Bod

I've been watching this thread and I've gone to visit the forum where the creator of Reaper has provided a place for it to be discussed. I've been known to tout a program and loop producers and to proclaim their benefit to the SONAR community. I personally think Cakewalk and SONAR is the best Sequencer/Audio recording program out there. But even though I own Vegas, I have never felt the need to go to the SONY site and promote a competitors product.

Part of my decision making when choosing a product is a thing call integrity. Evidently, some folks believe that if someone hasn't provided something they've asked for in a time span of their chosing then they can forget this thing called integrity. Remember, integrity is how you act when you think no one is looking. Well, there's a lot of people watching.

If this is how the creator of Reaper, and the folks who support his vision, do business, I don't want to be a part of them nor have anything to do with his product. I call upon him to reign in his folks. Take this back to the Reaper forum , please. It is in bad taste.

I ask as a licensed customer of Cakewalk products, that the moderators of this forum lock this thread and move it to the Off Topic area.

Johndale are you listening.

ORIGINAL: Mod Bod

...

If this is how the creator of Reaper, and the folks who support his vision, do business, I don't want to be a part of them nor have anything to do with his product. I call upon him to reign in his folks. Take this back to the Reaper forum , please. It is in bad taste.

I ask as a licensed customer of Cakewalk products, that the moderators of this forum lock this thread and move it to the Off Topic area.

...

the lock and move would likely prompt howls of corporate censorship. i believe ardant and rabid supporters of
reaper are the culprits, not the team itself. there's really no harm in discussing it is there? i mean, it's worth
reading about .. i'm a real junkie for this sort of stuff and almost every DAW product has something cool about
it. am i gonna sell my gear and switch to reaper . hell no ;-)

now, if cake perceives that there is predatory use of the forum by the reaper team, then by all means, say why .. and
sent it to the nether regions .. that would truly suck.

jeff

ORIGINAL: Greg Hendershott [Cakewalk]

Hi, Jason.

About this thread:

I don't mind people talking about competitive products on our forums. Obviously it happens all the time here. But this thread is turning into discussing detailed feature wish lists for Reaper. Would you all mind taking this elsewhere? I'd appreciate that.

By the way, I started Cakewalk as one guy with $4,000 of friends and family financing. I wrote the code, I packed boxes, I did tech support on the phone. I somehow sold enough to keep going, and it slowly grew over the years. I enjoyed those early days when it was just me writing the code. So I think I understand what you're doing, and why, because I did it all myself almost 20 years ago. It's a lot of fun, and I wish you luck pursuing it as long as it's still fun for you.

Again good luck, and I'll look forward to reading more of your thoughts ... elsewhere. :-)

Thanks.

Cheers,

Greg Hendershott
Founder & CEO
Cakewalk

I have to say, this was quite the admiral post by the CEO of Cakewalk. Somehow, I get the feeling though, that he views Justin Frankel as a new kid on the block writing his first inspiration of s/w code with Reaper.

So's here's a little article on who Justin Frankel is, just in case. I encourage, you to also go down to the bottom and click on the interview articles. This is definately one guy I like having working on my next DAW.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Frankel

Now my comments to this thread topic as far as Justin's work and the concern with Sonar.

Justin did not invent the First media player when he developed WinAmp........he saw where the other media players weaknesses where and he made the Better media player.

Justin did not invent the first Napster....he saw the weaknesses of the original Napster and where it failed and made the Better Napster with the release of Gnutella. So all you Limewire users and other peer soiftware sharing user people....here's your man to thank.

Justin's new focus is on an Audio DAW. So, Justin did not invent the first DAW.....and if his history is something to go by, then you can see it as I do....he is currently looking at the weaknesses of the other DAWs and attempting to develop the Better DAW.

Now, I think Sonar is a great DAW.....could it be better? Yes, I think it has many downsides about it, despite all it's strengths. Is Reaper better than it right now? Probably not, but I've been watching the development of Reaper from the beginning and I can tell you from my own personal experience it is on it's way to becoming the Better DAW. It already is in some regards and hopefully it will continue along that same path.

To someone who mentioned earlier of Cakewalk having some history behind them and being more established in the DAW market and making the comment of "What happens when Justin gets bored and decides to move onto something else?" Well, look at Gnutella....it didn't stop growing when it left his hands. It got GPLed and grew into a bigger monster where it's now being used by an entire world of programmers using Justin's framework that he created. I'm sure when/if he gets bored then, it is quite possible Reaper may grow into an even bigger concern. Right now he's still pretty well entertained on developing the Better side of things. So it's definately one, you might want to keep your eye on.

So to follow the original topic subject of, should Sonar be concerned? Well, maybe not at this time.......but if Justin Frankel's history is anything to go by.......Well, maybe it will be in the near future.

Well, I, too, think Greg showed a lot of class. Do you think the CEO/owner of most competing companies would come on and tactfully say "enough is enough?" No, some moderator who might or might not even *work* for the company would just slap a padlock on it--and within the first few posts!

P.S. John, as someone who also uses SS, how come you get respect and I always seem to get the "flies at a picnic" treatment? (Really a rhetorical question--I *don't* want to turn this thread into a discussion of yet another non-Cakewake product. )

KB, in closing the support is here, all you need to do is ask.

I know that support is here. This forum is one of the reasons that I decided on purchasing Sonar in the first place. Every since I became a Cakewalk user, I have always lauded them for their excellent tech support as well.

Peer support and tech support were not what I was referring to in my post.

I didn't mean for it to come across like that, and if it did, I apologize.

If I needed one on one support, I would have called or emailed tech support. If I wanted peer support, I would have posted a thread. These forums are open discussions. I enjoy reading them and find them to be very informative. I still don't understand what variables make Cakewalk personnel choose to comment or not comment on a thread in these forums.


This whole issue of "quantization" isn't really a one on one situation. It's more about a select group of individual users who find the quantiztion function is Sonar to be somewhat inadequate. It's not a question of "how do I do it?", and more of a question about "why does it work like that?", "why doesn't it work like this?", and most of all "why can't it be changed to work like what we are all more familiar with (hardware)?". I think this forum would be the perfect place to discuss it. Where else would we as a group discuss it? If Cakewalk wants to comment on the user forums about anything, then why won't they comment on this?


I think there has been enough discussions on the topic to warrant a comment from Cakewalk, and as I said before........

Even a negative response would denote that our concerns had been acknowledged!!!!!!

That's just my $.02.

Dude, for all you know it's in V6 and they're not allowed to comment on it, you don't know. In fact you don't know a lot, so pipe down.

Personally, I find this thread and the direction it's taken to be very impolite and inappropriate. First: to use it as a full-on feature request list for ANOTHER PRODUCT. Second: to then take the admin's exception to it as justification for continuing to talk about it! Third: to then try and use it as leverage to get a specific response about input quantization?? I find continuing to bump a thread that's very subject line warrants it being killed is in very poor taste, especially when you're crusading about your one and only one feature demand.

Hey dude, I'd love to have input quantization too, but this isn't the way to do it.

As for Reaper, it's another piece of software, congrats. I've tried it and it's okay, not bad at all but at the end of the day it's just that, another piece of software. If you wanna use it, go use it and best of luck to you, but get this crap off this forum. I've developed a strong relationship with Cakewalk products and I'm extremely fond of the very open nature of their peer forums. I do not want to poke a stick in the eye of the beholder just because some hotshot coder made a new DAW and some people on here want to use it as collateral to get a frickin' cup holder built into Sonar 6. Having gripes about something is fine, but show some frickin' candor.

I'm going to join Mod Bod in asking for this thread to be killed. As a Sonar user, the fact that this stupid thread title bumping up is in itself a slap in the face of all the registered, paid users of this product.

I call on the Administrators to put a damn padlock on this thread. I took up this same issue about Reaper on the Home Studio forums.

I'm going to join Mod Bod in asking for this thread to be killed. As a Sonar user, the fact that this stupid thread title bumping up is in itself a slap in the face of all the registered, paid users of this product.

Well, this thread was started by another registered Cakewalk user, who paid for Sonar. You and Mod Bod have the option to totally ignore this thread if you don't like the discussion of what it's about, where it has gone and so forth. Wouldn't it be pretty easy to just exercise that ability? I'm just wondering why you keep coming back and reading it, if it bothers you so much? I guess you guys feel your oppinion of a thread and how it impacts you outweighs everyone elses. I can't wait for the day, when I feel so self righteous.

Come on guys. I respect everyone's opinion, but I feel lucky that our forum has always been an open and free exchange of ideas and opinions. This isn't communist China or the Steinberg forums for cryin' out loud. 'The line' may have been crossed a few times, but that comes with the territory and Mr. Hendershott and Frankel have been real cool and set the record straight. There's no reason for fighting amongst ourselves.

I've been watching this thread and I've gone to visit the forum where the creator of Reaper has provided a place for it to be discussed. I've been known to tout a program and loop producers and to proclaim their benefit to the SONAR community. I personally think Cakewalk and SONAR is the best Sequencer/Audio recording program out there. But even though I own Vegas, I have never felt the need to go to the SONY site and promote a competitors product.

Part of my decision making when choosing a product is a thing call integrity. Evidently, some folks believe that if someone hasn't provided something they've asked for in a time span of their chosing then they can forget this thing called integrity. Remember, integrity is how you act when you think no one is looking. Well, there's a lot of people watching.

If this is how the creator of Reaper, and the folks who support his vision, do business, I don't want to be a part of them nor have anything to do with his product. I call upon him to reign in his folks. Take this back to the Reaper forum , please. It is in bad taste.

I ask as a licensed customer of Cakewalk products, that the moderators of this forum lock this thread and move it to the Off Topic area.

Nobody asked for the 6 page EZDrummer thread be moved to the instruments forum or the techniques forum. Surely, you could say your say w/out requesting that a thread be locked.

have a good one
3Eo

No, I'm standing my ground here. Sorry Red, I think you're wrong. Specifically because what's the issue here is not my "self righteousness" at asking this thread be killed. After all, I did ASK. What's the issue here is that the CEO OF THE COMPANY specifically came in and asked the discussion be moved, and it has not. In fact, it's been aggravated by people who are now using this discussion (and again, a very impolite and inappriopriate discussion) to try and armlock the company into granting feature requests. This forum is peer to peer, not an angry mob outside the gates of Cakewalk's headquarteres.

As for ignoring the thread, hey I've only looked at it three times, but it is consistently jumping to the top of the forum listing because people keep bumping it asking about input quantization, calling Cakewalk out on being "chicken" because they don't scroll wheel zoom and are "afraid" of reaper (insert BOC jokes here). If the subject title of this thread was a little more civil, perhaps "Hey has anyone seen this Reaper thing?" we might not be having this discussion. But truth is, the very spirit of the this thread has been nothing but derogratory towards the very company that is allowing this discussion to happen. You wouldn't let your daughter invite a bunch of friends over for a "my dad's a big fat jerk party", so why should Cakewalk let a few suspect forum members encourage biting the hand that feeds?

I don't feel my opinion outweighs anybody, I'm expressing my opinion and asking for action, and so have others, so please spare me the "self righteous" argument. I've always fought for unmoderated, free expression on these forums in nearly all kinds, but there's "off topic" and then there's simply "hey stop making out with my wife". If people want to discuss Reaper feature requests it's been made crystal clear where those discussions should be held (since it appears they need to be reminded). If people want to make feature requests we all know very well where they are supposed to go.

I'm not nearly as self righeous as I am embarassed that members of the user base can be so uncivilized. So let's can it, and get back to work. You can use Reaper is you want, it doesn't even bother me.

(edited for lame typos)

Mod Bod

Whats with the cheesy Hard Rock Cafe T-Shirt?

Mod Bod

Whats with the cheesy Hard Rock Cafe T-Shirt?

Well that is one way to get a thread closed. Not cool man IMO you don't need to attack him personally.

have a good one
3Eo

My thought is that any DAW regardless of price would have to offer some serious improvement over Sonar in order for me to jump ship and go through the hell of RELEARNING everything I do without thinking in SONAR. I already know SONAR and each revision is getting better and better. So why switch? Workflow is everything.

That said its pretty amazing that a newbie to DAW recording can go on the web, download Reaper, Audacity and a variety of high quality plugins and have a very good FREE recording setup without resorting to piracy.

I can't wait for the day, when I feel so self righteous.

I think the shoe fits you just fine. I've googled your screen name in the past and you do your share of pontificating across the Internet, my friend. So don't go searching for the best throwing stones just yet.

Here's my beef. The person who basically owns the forum has politely ask that we move the discussion to Justin's forum. If I've misinterpreted his post, please show me where I made my error. I feel that prolonging this discussion when the host has asked that it be moved is in bad form. In order to not make him the bad guy, I've asked that it be locked. I will take the abuse for close mindedness if that's what is needed. What's so bad about that?

I'm with ModBod on this one as well. This is tacky at best. If you want to inform about a new product with good intentions at heart, you'll move on w/out problem. True intentions come to light when things get a bit heated and people don't do what they say they are going to do like:
(to mr. moon's suggestion you all take it somewhere else)

pipelineaudio: yes, more than fair

in fact if he deleted the thread, I dont think anyone would cry foul

Then, next page you're still commenting and replying! (IMHO showing your true intentions):

How many more years till sonar gets mousewheel zoom?

Then maybe it can play in the same leagues as reaper

If we want to talk like silly nilly's anyhow

So what's it going to be?...are you going to do the right thing and do what you thought was good idea and let Reaper pay for the Reaper forum for feature request lists? Sounds like a good idea to me. You are tarnishing what could have been a good, open software discussion and ultimately a good taste in other people's mouths. Letting people in on a new product is not a crime. We do that all the time here. But, agreeing that it's a good idea to take it back to the product's native forum and then making an inflamatory statement screams that you have a different agenda.

Please do the right thing...
Eric

I see your point, wicked, and respect your opinion, but I don't think this thread is OT. It simply asks if this software product could be in serious competition with SONAR.

I can't speak for Mr. Hendershott, but I believe his gripe was with some posters - including a guy named Jason whom he mistook for Justin Frankel - using this thread as a discussion for Reaper feature requests, and I respect and agree with him that such posts are inappropriate for this forum.

IMHO, the thread as a whole is no more off-topic than any number of Sonar vs. Cubase threads in which features, stability and workflow are compared, which is a good thing. Some posters have gone too far, but that's what you get in a "free society".

ORIGINAL: Mod Bod

I've been watching this thread and I've gone to visit the forum where the creator of Reaper has provided a place for it to be discussed. I've been known to tout a program and loop producers and to proclaim their benefit to the SONAR community. I personally think Cakewalk and SONAR is the best Sequencer/Audio recording program out there. But even though I own Vegas, I have never felt the need to go to the SONY site and promote a competitors product.

Part of my decision making when choosing a product is a thing call integrity. Evidently, some folks believe that if someone hasn't provided something they've asked for in a time span of their chosing then they can forget this thing called integrity. Remember, integrity is how you act when you think no one is looking. Well, there's a lot of people watching.

If this is how the creator of Reaper, and the folks who support his vision, do business, I don't want to be a part of them nor have anything to do with his product. I call upon him to reign in his folks. Take this back to the Reaper forum , please. It is in bad taste.

I ask as a licensed customer of Cakewalk products, that the moderators of this forum lock this thread and move it to the Off Topic area.

you funny man.

havent you read the posts?

Immediately upon entering this forum, I, a big time REAPER user, said -- hey, if you want to discuss this, go here or here, (relevant forums/threads where REAPER discussion is taking place). Is that integrity enough for you? Remember, this was started by a member of your forum :D

ORIGINAL: Mod Bod

I can't wait for the day, when I feel so self righteous.

I think the shoe fits you just fine. I've googled your screen name in the past and you do your share of pontificating across the Internet, my friend. So don't go searching for the best throwing stones just yet.

Here's my beef. The person who basically owns the forum has politely ask that we move the discussion to Justin's forum. If I've misinterpreted his post, please show me where I made my error. I feel that prolonging this discussion when the host has asked that it be moved is in bad form. In order to not make him the bad guy, I've asked that it be locked. I will take the abuse for close mindedness if that's what is needed. What's so bad about that?

no abuse but here is a thought for you :D

check the post im bumping below, and well... make up your mind then.

ORIGINAL: Jason Brian Merrill

hehe.

very interesting the thoughts presented here.

I signed up just to respond.

Yes. It is a threat to a certain demographic of Sonar, those who wish to do audio quickly and efficiently. having used Sonar, I say this isnt the case with it. (just my opinion, no need to flame)

Yes, it has several updates. 35 in the past month or so.

why?

because the dev listens to the users. most of those updates contain feature requests. not just bug fixes.

The midi features are ever-expanding, and post 1.0 expect to see alot of improvement. I think many here are likely ignorant of the full feature set this program provides. Perhaps you would like to stay this way, lest destroy your happy little worlds ;)

i suggest if you want more information,

visit this thread

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=138133&highlight=

or visit the REAPER forum

http://www.cockos.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=19

seee ^^^^^^^^^^^^^6

immediately i suggested moving to the reaper forum, or a thread in kvr regarding it.

slightly OT:
Does anyone know offhand what is the maximum theoretical number of posts a thread on the internet can contain before questions of character are introduced?

My own informal research indicates about 37 as an upper limit, but I'm sure that there must be a formula somewhere. I'd also be curious if anyone knows how long a thread can exist without containing arguments about how people are arguing.

Many thanks in advance for any help.

Cheers.