hector945
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Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
I'd like to control my Sonar virtual console with a 16 fader surface controller.
Most of what I see on the market are only 8/9 faders.
Is there a good and "inexpensive" controller with 16 faders that works well with Sonar??
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THambrecht
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/02 11:26:08
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chuckebaby
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/02 12:14:37
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Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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gswitz
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/02 12:41:42
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Touch screen? It's totally silent.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Mystic38
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/02 13:33:38
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Well, its all relative but there is no way i see >$2k as "inexpensive" .. after all, that's Les Paul money! :D I agree with Chuck, the Behringer stuff will do the job and the x-touch at $600 with moto faders may be useful, albeit only 8 ch strips at a time...and the x-touch compact without transport/scrub at $400 is cheaper. There is also the potential to cascade multiple units..ie an x-touch and x-touch compact for 16 ch for $1000.. no idea if its windows/Sonar working, but there is an interesting video on doing this in logic here.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbjXRZ2I_mk
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irvin 
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/02 15:09:21
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☄ Helpfulby jshep0102 2016/03/03 09:13:22
Given that no hardware controller in the world gives you complete control over a DAW, the best use of your money might be a Touchscreen monitor. I have been using a 27" Acer (about $550) with Studio One that gives me performance on the level (or better) of Slate's Raven at half the cost and without an additional software layer (Studio One has probably the best native touchscreen support among DAWs).
Hardware controllers are, in my opinion, a step backwards at this point of the game. YMMV.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/03 08:34:43
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irvin
Given that no hardware controller in the world gives you complete control over a DAW, the best use of your money might be a Touchscreen monitor. I have been using a 27" Acer (about $550) with Studio One that gives me performance on the level (or better) of Slate's Raven at half the cost and without an additional software layer (Studio One has probably the best native touchscreen support among DAWs).
Hardware controllers are, in my opinion, a step backwards at this point of the game. YMMV.
don't get too caught up in technology there. touchscreens are great for something but just not everything. not to mention they are like "Glass" (excuse the joke) almost every pro studio out there right now are using hardware controllers. touch are indeed good for something's, but I do not see hardware as a step back. more controllers are being made today then ever. digital boards that interface with DAW's is the standard for most pro studios. touch has its draw backs, for example, to be super accurate, you need gestures/ click +enter. with a hardware fader in your hand you can dial in much faster. im not even going in to transport controls either. to the OP, Mystic38 brings up a good point the x-touch looks to be a nice draw up by Behringer. like I said before, I haven't always been keen on Behringers stuff but they are improving / using better parts/better engineering.
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jshep0102
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/03 08:57:19
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Ummmm chuckebaby, don't say that in front of all the extremely pro guys Steven Slate has sold Raven's to....
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bitman
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/03 09:32:44
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2 BCF2000's in Mackie emulation mode.
Done.
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hector945
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/03 09:52:22
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Thanks guys. Yeah, most of those options are not "inexpensive" for a new home studio. For now, I'm going to give up on the 16 fader option, and go with the typical 8. I ordered this: http://www.korg.com/us/products/controllers/nanokontrol_studio/ It's wireless too. So, I can start my DAW record button from my drumset. Rather that walk there from my PC and have to use a bunch of count-in measures before recording. And, when I "screw up" my drum tracks, I can restart w/o having to leave my drum stool :)
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hector945
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/03 10:05:25
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Regarding the thought that a control will never "fully" replace the DAW screen controls.
Yeah, that's probably true.
However, for the transport functions (stop, play, record), it's really nice to do it while at my drums, wearing my guitar, or with one hand on the piano, and NOT have to reach for the mouse and look at the screen before recording.
For faders, again, the control fader is easier to manipulate than the screen with a mouse.
However, when you start talking plugins, softsynths, etc.
Now you just want to do it with the mouse, imo.
Setting up the control surface is just too involved at that point.
And with so many different apps and layouts for third party stuff, it's too hard to recall what each knob/fader will do anyhow. Until you start moving it, and screw up your current parameters.
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WallyG
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/03 11:10:57
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chuckebaby
... I haven't always been keen on Behringers stuff but they are improving / using better parts/better engineering...
I also was concerned about Behringer's reputation for lack of quality/reliability, but after reading positive reviews about them, I purchased the X-Touch and after using it for a couple months, I'm very pleased with my purchase. Wish they would come out with an 8 fader add-on. For now you have to series connect 2 or more X-Touch's, if you want more fader control w/o having to switch banks. Makes for a wide desk. Walt
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irvin
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/03 13:26:03
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hector945
However, when you start talking plugins, softsynths, etc.
Now you just want to do it with the mouse, imo.
Setting up the control surface is just too involved at that point.
And with so many different apps and layouts for third party stuff, it's too hard to recall what each knob/fader will do anyhow. Until you start moving it, and screw up your current parameters.
That's the problem with hardware controllers...way too many things they can't control!
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irvin
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/03 13:34:52
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chuckebaby
touch has its draw backs, for example, to be super accurate, you need gestures/ click +enter.
There is no need to be "super accurate" - normal interaction is perfectly fine. I'm using mine with Studio One's native support and it's great in every sense. I don't even understand the part about "gesture / click + enter" - I don't have to do any of that. My hands replaces the mouse cursor, to put it in the simplest terms. Maybe different DAWs behave differently or offer different levels of native support for touchscreen monitors? chuckebaby
with a hardware fader in your hand you can dial in much faster.
That's true of faders, but there is a whole lot more than moving faders. Working with plugins, vst intruments, editing, etc., etc., is something a hardware controller is very poor at. chuckebaby
im not even going in to transport controls either.
Transport controls are perfectly fine with a touchscreen. Have you experienced any problems?
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/04 07:06:45
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hector945
Thanks guys.
Yeah, most of those options are not "inexpensive" for a new home studio.
For now, I'm going to give up on the 16 fader option, and go with the typical 8.
I ordered this:
http://www.korg.com/us/products/controllers/nanokontrol_studio/
It's wireless too. So, I can start my DAW record button from my drumset.
Rather that walk there from my PC and have to use a bunch of count-in measures before recording.
And, when I "screw up" my drum tracks, I can restart w/o having to leave my drum stool :)
I quite like the look of this as an inexpensive option, I wonder how well it works with Sonar? My new NI S61 keyboard has given me unprecidented control over my virtual instruments and Kontakt libraries but beyong transport controls its not so good as a control surface.
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stxx
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/04 11:35:47
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BCF 2000s are NOT real touch sensitive faders and do not correctly write automation data... unless something has changed. I had one and the automation curves for fader moves continuously snapped back to 0.0 when not moving so if you raise or lowered the fader and then stopped movement the written automation would snap back to zero whether you let go or kept your finger on it. VERY annoying and at the time I had one, there was no workable solution. Mackie control works well but you can't use them for all the Sonar functionality, only transport, shuttle, pan and MSR. Bottomline is that there is NO control surface that SONAR supports where you get your moneys worth unless you get real real cheap on ebay. It is a real downside for Sonar.. One of the 2.... That and no apple support.
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azslow3
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/04 11:57:42
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stxx
BCF 2000s are NOT real touch sensitive faders and do not correctly write automation data... unless something has changed. I had one and the automation curves for fader moves continuously snapped back to 0.0 when not moving so if you raise or lowered the fader and then stopped movement the written automation would snap back to zero whether you let go or kept your finger on it. VERY annoying and at the time I had one, there was no workable solution.
Latch mode for automation writing?
Mackie control works well but you can't use them for all the Sonar functionality, only transport, shuttle, pan and MSR.
And everything else, except soft synth parameters and some ProChannel modules (EQ/Comp works)
Bottomline is that there is NO control surface that SONAR supports where you get your moneys worth unless you get real real cheap on ebay.
Any surface can work with Sonar, from gamepads up to digital mixers...
It is a real downside for Sonar.. One of the 2.... That and no apple support.
I do not see that as a downside 
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BobF
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/04 12:41:44
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I have a couple of devices that provide faders/knobs/buttons in addition the primary purpose they were purchased for. I really like having the physical faders, BUT I don't use them because they aren't motorized. Having to recapture/reset the level(s) at every bank switch is a major PITA to me.
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stxx
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/04 12:42:31
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If Sonar supported apple, it would likely be morhiughly recognized and supported by companies that do make control surfaces such at Slate Raven. SONAR has a VERY small user base next to the others bigger ones (and deserves much larger base) and one of the reasons is lack of support by Apple IOS. This has been written numerous times. Control surface: Nothing worked for me with BCF2000 and I searched and searched. Does anyone have a BCF200 that properly writes automation? Not questioning or doubting, just asking. Prochannel doesn't work and that is a HUGE deficite of function. Plugins don;t work well either. It is common knowledge SONAR does not support Mackie in the "normal" standard way
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azslow3
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/04 14:16:49
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☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2016/03/04 19:01:51
BobF
I have a couple of devices that provide faders/knobs/buttons in addition the primary purpose they were purchased for. I really like having the physical faders, BUT I don't use them because they aren't motorized. Having to recapture/reset the level(s) at every bank switch is a major PITA to me.
That is why I have introduced "instant" with non linear response curves and "endless imitation" modes. If I want change something, initial coarse response it not a problem (it converges with time). I just do not want it "jumps" and I do not want "catch" the position. For the "final touch" MIDI resolution is in most cases not sufficient (think of EQ parameters), so I switch to the "fine" mode. And so using curved instant combined with endless fine (by shift key) method, I can use my MPK mini with the feeling it has endless encoders with good (for the case) resolution. Sure, there are times when that does not work perfect, for example when the knob is all the way left while the parameter is all the way right. But in practice that does not happened too often. stxx
If Sonar supported apple, it would likely be morhiughly recognized and supported by companies that do make control surfaces such at Slate Raven. SONAR has a VERY small user base
Sure, support from Slate Raven will instantly explode the number of Sonar users Roland has tried that... and after counting (I guess by fingers, may be on abacus) the number of attracted customers, near instantly has stopped the production and has sold Cakewalk a bit later... Nektar has thought the problem is the price. So they have made a cheap keyboard with Sonar support. Counted customers, no Sonar support in upper models...
...and one of the reasons is lack of support by Apple IOS. This has been written numerous times. Control surface: Nothing worked for me with BCF2000 and I searched and searched. Does anyone have a BCF200 that properly writes automation? Not questioning or doubting, just asking.
As with StudioMix, supposed automation mode for not touch sensitive controls is "Latch". For touch sensitive it is "Touch" (a kind of logical).
Prochannel doesn't work and that is a HUGE deficite of function. Plugins don;t work well either. It is common knowledge SONAR does not support Mackie in the "normal" standard way
There are several methods to control ProChannel and plug-ins. There is no "normal" way for Mackie, that is a myth... Do you know that from computer perspective there is NO difference between let say MIDI Keyboard and MCU? They both just send "Keys" (all buttons on MCU), "Pitch bend" (faders of MCU) and "Control changes" (Mod wheel on keyboard, encoders on MCU). So, what is "standard" then? Should Sonar play a melody when you press transport keys? You are right in part that Cakewalk was not updating Mackie support for quite long time. But I guess the reason is still the same, that is not worse the effort. You can ask why I think I can judge in that area. That is easy to explain. I have created Sonar controlling platform, which can work with ANY device (gamepads, keyboards, MCU, even HUI and StudioMix which communicate rather weird way). Bidirectionally, with close to any possible in Sonar operations support, unique features (for example, search for other DAW controller solution with feedback as a speach instead of light), completely FREE to use, with FREE remote configuration when required. For those who do not like closed source project, I have declared myself ready to support CW Mackie plug-in (and I have "fixed" it to support ProChannel EQ/Compressors, to show I am able to do that). You can guess what I need to count the number of really interested Sonar users - fingers on one hand...
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stevee9c6
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/04 18:25:21
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Jeez, I'm still stumbling along with my hybrid VS-700 system.
Steve www.stevestallingsmusic.com
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TerraSin
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/04 20:19:54
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stevee9c6
Jeez, I'm still stumbling along with my hybrid VS-700 system.
For the time being, I'm going to be using my VS-700C but with the new interface. Gonna see if I have any issues but need to install the drivers for the stand alone console and hook up USB. I have yet to dins a controller that I like as much as this one design wise. The Mackie Control Universal Pro looks really nice though. I might upgrade to that one once I sell off my 700 system.
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Snehankur
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/04 21:30:22
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TerraSin
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Re: Recommend a good surface control with 16 faders for Sonar
2016/03/05 00:11:47
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