Recommendations for a stable VST only host

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synthjunkie
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2011/06/05 11:52:23 (permalink)

Recommendations for a stable VST only host

I am starting to look into playing live more and would like to use VSTs.  I don't really want to spend the money on something like a Muse Receptor and have plenty of extra hardware laying around.

I'm planning on using a relatively powerful PC with a small UPS backup.  I've read that systems such as receptor are based on Linux, which I agree is more stable than Windows, but I'm wondering if I might be able to pull it off running WinXP stripped down to only run a VST host.

Looking for any advice/recommendations.  The biggest thing is to find the most stable components.  The PC I'm going to use already has a good soundcard (external firewire), and everything is running stable from a HW perspective.

I'm thinking of running Sonar on a laptop and have this system dedicated only to VST instruments.  I had used Steinberg VStack before but it doesn't look like they are currently developing it.

I need a very stable/full-featured VST host.  I'm thinking I will be running several instances of Arturia Analog Factory, Ivory, and maybe a few others.

Comments/suggestions?

Thanks
#1

14 Replies Related Threads

    jeffb9363
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    Re:Recommendations for a stable VST only host 2011/06/05 17:57:00 (permalink)
    http://www.cantabilesoftware.com/

    http://www.brainspawn.com/

    Used both of these live for some time.

    If you're staying 32bit and not using hardware synths Forte is recommended.

    If you're 64bit and/or using hardware synths (like I am) Cantabile is a better bet.

    Studio:
    X1P on Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz P45 8Gb DDR3. W7 x64. MOTU 1296, 2408 Mk3. TC-Helicon Voiceworks. BCF2000. 
    Stage:
    Cantabile Performer 2 on E8600 @ 4Ghz P45 8Gb DDR2. W7 x64. 2408 Mk3, TC-Helicon Harmony-M.
    #2
    synthjunkie
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    Re:Recommendations for a stable VST only host 2011/06/06 08:40:39 (permalink)
    Thanks!  That's perfect.  I didn't realize there were products like this out there.  I really like the UI with Forte but I will be using mostly external HW synths with just a few VSTs.  I like being able to trigger a sample from within the program. 
    Have you found them both to be stable?  I would rather be doing all of this on a Mac since Windows sucks for reliability so I need to have something completely reliable.

    I was toying with possibly using Ableton Live but think it might be overkill.
    #3
    jeffb9363
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    Re:Recommendations for a stable VST only host 2011/06/06 13:52:30 (permalink)
    I did somewhere in excess of 80 gigs with Forte and have done around 40 with Cantabile and haven't had a single crash or hang in all that time.

    Windows 7 has been a complete revelation in terms of stability and I'd recommend it to anyone wanting to use a computer on stage.

    Mark Kelly (the keyboard player with Marillion) uses Forte on stage so if it's good enough for him.......

    You can buy an addon for Forte called Ehco which gives you the ability to use hardware synths but Cantabile comes with that functionality as standard.

    I would heartily recommend either without hesitation.

    Studio:
    X1P on Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz P45 8Gb DDR3. W7 x64. MOTU 1296, 2408 Mk3. TC-Helicon Voiceworks. BCF2000. 
    Stage:
    Cantabile Performer 2 on E8600 @ 4Ghz P45 8Gb DDR2. W7 x64. 2408 Mk3, TC-Helicon Harmony-M.
    #4
    Beagle
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    Re:Recommendations for a stable VST only host 2011/06/06 14:42:06 (permalink)
    hi guys, forgive my ignorance

    is this something you would only need if you have different softsynths you wanted to run at the same tmie or during the same show even, but didn't want to load them 'on the fly"?

    for example, if all you ever used on stage was Kontakt this wouldn't be necessary, right?  but if you used say kontakt and omnisphere and Superior Drummer, then you'd want this so that you could load all of them, have the kits and patches loaded and be ready for when they're needed?

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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    #5
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:Recommendations for a stable VST only host 2011/06/06 19:44:30 (permalink)
    Hi Beagle,
     
    Both Forte' and Cantibile 2 Performer organize your soft-synths as a virtual rack of gear.
    You can setup complex splits/layers... remap MIDI controllers... etc.
    You can save a Scene/Sub-Session for each tune...
    If you're running a fast machine, you can setup dense/complex splits/layers... and play them glitch-free at ultra low latency settings.  I've been using Forte' and Cantible 2 Performer for the last couple of years... (running about a dozen of the better soft-synths) and I'd never go back to using my workstation keyboards for sounds.  The best soft-synths have superseded the best keyboard workstations.  It's so much easier to program... and rearrange set lists!!!  What used to take 45 minutes with a Korg M3 (copy/paste between banks as the M3 editor doesn't have librarian features) now takes 5-10 minutes.
     
    If you're strickly running Kontakt, you can run that standalone.
     
    post edited by Jim Roseberry - 2011/06/07 09:51:20

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #6
    jeffb9363
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    Re:Recommendations for a stable VST only host 2011/06/07 05:58:12 (permalink)
    And everything can be controlled by MIDI!

    That means I can switch on the computer at soundcheck and not have to touch it again until I switch it off at the end of the night!!

    Studio:
    X1P on Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz P45 8Gb DDR3. W7 x64. MOTU 1296, 2408 Mk3. TC-Helicon Voiceworks. BCF2000. 
    Stage:
    Cantabile Performer 2 on E8600 @ 4Ghz P45 8Gb DDR2. W7 x64. 2408 Mk3, TC-Helicon Harmony-M.
    #7
    Beagle
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    Re:Recommendations for a stable VST only host 2011/06/07 08:01:55 (permalink)
    great info, guys.  I've been considering moving to using kontakt on a streamlined computer at least for live shows because the sounds on my keyboard are no where near as good as kontakt.  I might look into Forte' and/or Cantible if I go with more than just Kontakt.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #8
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:Recommendations for a stable VST only host 2011/06/07 09:54:19 (permalink)
    great info, guys. I've been considering moving to using kontakt on a streamlined computer at least for live shows because the sounds on my keyboard are no where near as good as kontakt. I might look into Forte' and/or Cantible if I go with more than just Kontakt.
      When you start using Kontakt for horns/etc... it's a HUGE improvement over even the best keyboards.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #9
    uncleswede
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    Re:Recommendations for a stable VST only host 2011/06/10 07:15:36 (permalink)
    Hi.
    I have an HP dual core laptop (Win 7) that I use in various ways a) as my personal mobile recording rig (with a Saffire 6) and b) for live recording our band (10 inputs through a Phonic Helix board 12 driven from the inserts on our main FOH desk). 

    Encouragingly it has been 100% stable in those roles but I've been considering using it in a third way, as both a simple live VST sound source and recording rig for another duo that I'm part of.  Basically the set up I've got is:


    - Laptop running Sonar 8.53 connected to MIDI keyboard (USB) and Phonic mixer (Firewire)
    - All live instruments routed through the Phonic mixer onto specific firewire inputs
    - Sonar's Master output routed back to the Phonic mixer main outs which are routed to the P.A. as a stereo feed
    - Sonar project has the following tracks, all armed to record, with input monitoring on and mapped to the appropriate input:
      - two vocal tracks, with EQ & reverb sends and compressors
      - Piano (TruePianos) with reverb send, input routed from the MIDI keyboard
      - acoustic guitar, with reverb send and compressor
      - electric guitar, with Guitar rig plugin

    The intention is to simply set this up and hit (R)record at the start of the gig. I will not be changing patches or VSTs during the performance.

    Well, it all seems to work at home(!) and I've performed & recorded a few rehearsals (60-70 mins each time) without a glitch. CPU usage never goes above 30%

    *BUT* I've never used a computer in a live gig before and my natural inclination is to be strangely nervous about it...
    So I would really welcome any other advice/warnings from those of you that have actually used PCS in your live rigs

    Cheers


    ---------------------------------------------------------
    How to fly - throw yourself at the ground and miss
    S8.5PE, i7-920 (XP), 6Gb RAM, Phonic Helix 12, Axiom 61 controller, JM VC3Q and mic, plus more...
    #10
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:Recommendations for a stable VST only host 2011/06/10 17:09:04 (permalink)
    *BUT* I've never used a computer in a live gig before and my natural inclination is to be strangely nervous about it... So I would really welcome any other advice/warnings from those of you that have actually used PCS in your live rigs

     
    Make sure the machine is rock-solid stable.
    Use a rock-solid audio interface.
    Don't install updates the day of a gig.
    Make a backup of your Forte' or Cantible "set-list" and keep that on a flash drive.
    Have a backup image file of the boot HD.
    Have a backup plan... just in case the worst happens.
     
    Prior planning is key
    If your prepared, there's nothing to worry about. 
    I've been gigging with PCs for 2+ years... (never had a problem)
    I use a Motif XS7 as my MIDI controller... which doubles as a backup.
    If the PC were to die mid tune, I could immediately switch to the Motif.
    Glad to say that's never been necessary...   (Forte' and Cantible have been very stable)
     

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #11
    uncleswede
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    Re:Recommendations for a stable VST only host 2011/06/13 11:56:30 (permalink)
    Jim,
    Thanks. Wise words, as ever.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    How to fly - throw yourself at the ground and miss
    S8.5PE, i7-920 (XP), 6Gb RAM, Phonic Helix 12, Axiom 61 controller, JM VC3Q and mic, plus more...
    #12
    synthjunkie
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    Re:Recommendations for a stable VST only host 2011/07/29 14:19:10 (permalink)
    I know I started this thread and I appreciate the feedback...but I have been considering going all Mac based lately and wondered if there are comparable applications for Mac?  I think my older dual core intel 2.4GHz MacBook pro might be a better alternative to lugging around a desktop with a battery backup.  With a 6 GB RAM and an SSD it should kill with just about any softsynth.

    Thanks again for your help.
    #13
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Recommendations for a stable VST only host 2011/07/29 21:44:19 (permalink)
    I've seen numerous laptops including Macs on stages these days.

    With a lappy, the need for a UPS is not as critical since it will run on battery for over an hour if the power goes out.... and it would likely be the only thing in the club still running in a power fail anyway.

    I'd buy a custom laptop from Jim Roseberry so it didn't have any crapware on it. Lean and mean is the key. Or reformat the HD and install only what you want.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

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    #14
    Starise
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    Re:Recommendations for a stable VST only host 2011/07/29 22:08:44 (permalink)
    jeffb9363


    http://www.cantabilesoftware.com/

    http://www.brainspawn.com/

    Used both of these live for some time.

    If you're staying 32bit and not using hardware synths Forte is recommended.

    If you're 64bit and/or using hardware synths (like I am) Cantabile is a better bet.
     
     
     Back when I used soft synths on stage I did use Cantabile and it worked very well with little cpu usage. Any time I had a question about the software I could email the designer idrectly and he always responded to my emails which really impressed me. The software has also seen regular updates as needed.
      Right now I am pretty content with my onboard Roland sounds when I need to play out and I don't miss the laptop on stage at all,but then what I'm doing is probably not as musically thick as some.
    #15
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