Recommendations on Live Music Recording

Lessons learned the hard way:
- show up before the band and do some tests on the empty stage to make sure you've remembered to bring everything you need
- as the band sets up, look at them through the viewfinder. Watch for badly-placed lights and blocked views; once the band's all set up it's too late to suggest changes
- use more than one camera, even if it means a static shot on a tripod
- don't forget to video some drum hits or other sharp sounds before the music starts, to check synchronization
 

There are always options. Video recording (with an external mic) on the camera can be done, as well as adding an audio track of the same thing (at least in my $50 software). Mixing the volumes can be done along with downing if necessary the camera audio volume which can be separated into video and audio (and that has to be done showing the waveform of the audio of course with the video there also) from the software video program. And if you have an audio track and edit it in sonar and then export the wave sound, then if it is at the same sample rate of the video camera (old ones used to be 48000 sample rate compressed and 16 bit like my old camera) or new HD camera where it should be listed in the manual somewhere also may be the same. (equivalent to 48000Hz sample rate and 16 bit). And you have a audio mixer in the software the video and camera audio on one track and the imported wave form of just the audio on another track then the video audio can be turned off and only the imported file used, or a combination of volumes whatever.
 
The only thing in video codecs is if you want straight 48000 Hz sample rate at the end and 16 bit like what was recorded, my software only makes an *.avi file that way, and those can be enormously very large files depending on length of the video.

Soundbooth was designed for videographers needing a dedicated audio program.  It has since been discontinued in favor of the fully featured Audition program, but it should still work.  Sample rate standards for video are 48khz at 16bits (but always record at 24bit), you should be running the audio through a dedicated preamp/converter and not directly into your computer "mic" inputs or the sound will suffer greatly.  There are plenty of cheap USB audio interfaces out there.
 
 

I'm headed in this direction myself, but not very far down the road yet, still dialing in the audio side. Done a ton of stills, live, and I know where issues lie there. I also study a lot of other people's videos from gigs I attended myself...sooo...take this w a grain of salt cuz you probably know better than me where the gaps are in my experience.
 
First off...Sonar X2 Essential set me back $100, and I have yet to find anything  in Producer that Essential is missing that I need for live capture, and if I ever do, Essential files plug right into Pro if need be.
 
Second, I've done everything your original post requests, with just X2 Essential and Premier Elements. Just once, but it was easy, even tho the Premier manual lies off in my future. Premier Elements set me back $100, bundled w Photoshop Elements.
 
Third...nobody is gonna be happy with you being...in the way...while the band and studio staff is trying to lay down tracks, in an expensive facility, that probably was designed more for audio than video work, and probably less so while overdubbing, a fiddley process at a time when project money is running low. That means some advance planning on your part, including but not limited to, your trailing cables, any nouse you or they make, unforseen problems on your end, blocking progress on the audio side, any emag interference created by, or even blameable on you, justly or not, and the idea of re doing any takes just for vid, while on the $tudio clock. Not insurmountable, with planning, and a good attitude on your part. Possibly helpful would be a strong awareness on your part as a Fly on the Wall, seen but not noticed, as to the ebb and flow of the studio process, before you go live. A pre production sitdown, with the the three principles, talent, video, and audio, should help define clear priorities in advance, so that near certain compromises, aren't surprised at any times of stress.
 
Finally...I did not see major problems with sync. Any time at all spent watching Youtube, VEVO included, ought to make you aware that few competing vids even considered sync...drummers wailing on the snare visually during tom solos, chix doing handsprings w mics contacting the floor...silently...etc.
 
Still and all...Entry level software like Elements still provided numerous options to get clips n sound lined up.  In fact... I'm not convinced you need to worry about music audio at all. You are shooting in a facility designed and tuned especially for capturing and editing audio. You should have full access, after the fact, to tracks, stems, rough mixes, final mixes, and masters. Not sure you need to sweat re-inventing the wheel, especially in that environment...however...
 
Some of the best parts of the recording process, visually and audibly, go down between takes...with the red light off. Its very likely you and all you to capture that. On the plus side, how hifi do lounge and tracking room and control room antics need to be to make their point? You might be able to get away w camera mics alobe. Or step up to a good mike wired to the cam inputs. Bit better, add a handheld Zoom type recorder, with a stereo pair to the above. Know where your audio feeds are in advance so you can tap in on your discretion, and test them thoroughly to make sure jacking in doesn't put artifacts onto the master tape. Choose carefully WHEN you jack in...the ONE TIME you don't want a pop is the 387th take of the bridge, the ONLY one that captured the groove w no screw ups...except for YOURS.
 
If you aren't in a hurry, you could chill till a studio set up for simultaneaos audio and video is online and dialed in...I mean seriously...outside your car, you goona listen, when you can listen AND watch...in this century? Hang tuff...I'm on it, we oughtta have mostbof the bugs out and go live by the end of this decade...2025 at the latest...I swear!
 
 

Look the guys are over complicating things, that is their want.  But honestly get an IXY from Rode if you have an IPhone they even have a grip which hooks up to your camera.  There is an app all you have to do is hit record and you have a 24 bit 96khz file that can be edited and synced later.  It's how I do my live recordings now.
 
Ben

rumleymusic
Anything is going to be better than on-camera pickup.  Though if you are recording a band, and want it to sound truly professional, you can't just stick up two mics in XY.  That is not to say a stereo pair cannot sound fantastic, but it usually works best with acoustic music in a good room.
 
The OP did say this was guitar and voice with harmonica only.  So XY (or other, better variants of stereo cardioids) could work just great.   If I had only two mics i would but them 2-3 feet in front of the performer and a couple feet above his head.  
 
Personally what I would do for folk music in this situation is: a single LDC for the voice and harmonica, a close stereo pair, or a single mic for the guitar and a stereo (room) pair a few feet back.  Multi Track or mix to taste.  
 

With all the suggestions for mics, I always seem to have issues with the audio sounding tin-ee and tend to lose the bass end.  One friend recommended a PZM or two just in front of the band, behind any monitors to pick up the lower tones. 

Have any of you had similar issues, or feedback for getting a more full sound on the final recording?

 
You will not want for anything with proper miking and good microphones.  Dynamic mics and highly directional electret camera mics are not good for stereo pair recording, they will sound weak, use dedicated SDC (pencil) mics.  LDC's can sound muddy on bass heavy material since the transient response is much slower.
 
Keep in mind the more directional the microphone, the greater the proximity effect, and the weaker the bass will sound at a distance. Add to that the fact that highly directional mics are weak in the bass range to begin with.  

 The IXY microphone is an XY stereo microphone basically the same as Rodes NT4, it has it's own recording app which you just transfer the stereo recording across from your IPhone.  This aversion to recording to an Idevice is no longer warranted but you will still see the oldies proclaim no way never because oldies fear change!!
http://www.rodemic.com/microphones/ixy
 
Ben 

Look the idea of "pro" and "fidelity" are crap.  It's an idea propagated by the corporations which are designed as control mechanisms.  Yes the IXY is a cheap microphone used for the IPhone but to record what the OP has suggested which is acoustic guitar, vocals and harmonica it would be fine.
 
I may have made a superfluous claim and connected the NT4 and the IXY but again the "pros" are giving superfluous data which in the end will only confuse the OP.
 
I recently did some location recordings using the IXY and recorded a couple of jazz bands and a string trio, the sound was amazing and I have excellent ears.
 
All I am saying is look at what the OP wants to do and then try and come up with a solution that isn't so technical, and realise that not everything you understand as pro these days is needed for such a simple need. 
 
Ben 

This video:
http://youtu.be/LATVxosP5ds
was done with this mic:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VideoMProST/
 
until they told me they do not allow it, and may bane me from coming in the place
if done again.

My old video camera (not HD Ready or HD full - and looks like it)
at the camera's rate of 48kHz and 16 bit, made to 44100kHz and 16 bit
without anything else done to it in the video program into a *.avi file.
-10dB bass cut switch was on, and the place has a sound person.
Noisy with people in it of course, it is live. I was sitting at a table towards the back of the room.
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In your case a studio may be different and not allow a camera in the same room,
and may want to kick you out of there while a recording is being made.

Otherwise I suppose there are even better mics, but for one mic, and the entire band
just recording on my old camera, I supose it may not be too bad. In fact with different
adaptors for the connection to equipment I may even consider to sing through it or use
it for recording as a low impedence microphone used in a recording.
(for a low- end version of a mic compared to some mic prices, of which I am not willing
to spend over a thousand dollars for, at least if not more money.
 

Thanks All...BTW:  It's Ms. Erin Walsh;-)

 
Edited,  apologies, I didn't read your name.    

Erin, I think you've gotten all the advice you need so I don't want to cloud the info any more. My reason for posting is due to having just done a professional video with a company. I was the performer this time around....but one of the things they didn't do, is super crucial and I'd like to share the experience with you just to feed your head.
 
So this video company is scheduled to video my Van Halen tribute band. We've seen their work and were quite impressed. We come to find out we know a guy that knows the owner of the company, he makes a call, we get a killer deal.
 
We get to the show and they had live feeds coming from the mixer our soundman was using which was a Behringer X32. Whatever connections they used, everything went right into their MAC from the board and we had 24 tracks of audio. The sound came out great....and this is where the problem is...
 
The sound was TOO great and sounded like the band playing live in a studio. For some stupid reason, they didn't set up ANY mic's to capture the room. We had a crowd of about 800 people and they sounded like 800 people crammed into a jail cell in mono. It's absolutely horrible and incredibly unforgiving for the band because our mistakes that night were plentiful, unfortunately.
 
So my reason for stopping by your thread is to tell you to definitely try and capture the room as best as you can just so the outs you take from the board do not make the band sound like they recorded live in a studio. Also, be careful as to WHERE you place those mics and coordinate with any light people or special effects people.
 
Another mistake this company made was....there wasn't any coordination with anyone other than asking the soundman where they could patch in. We have smoke machines making sssssssssssssssss sounds in some of the audio.....and a list of other things that should have never made it.
 
Luckily for me...and this is why having all the tracks are important, I have control over all the audio and can manipulate some of the problem areas. However, I CANNOT do much to the actual room nor can I bring the crowd to life like I had hoped because they didn't use ANY mic's to capture the room other than what bled through our vocal mic's. If it were me, I would have ran 5 mic's on the entire venue. Picture a square....a mic on each corner and one in the center getting the back of the room. It may be over-kill, but I'd rather have more than EVER leave a band sounding stagnant and like they were playing live in a studio. Without the room....the sound is nothing special and won't even give you the feeling the band is live...even though you SEE it. We're so disappointed in the stuff we got, me and the owner had it out to where he dropped the price even more because I just wasn't going to pay for that. It's ruined all our plans for this video.
 
So remember all this stuff as it (to me at least) is super important. The console feeds are great...especially when you have a great soundman and a great recording computer/DAW. But because they are so good, they can also be stale sounding if you're not careful and VERY unforgiving because everything is so up front. Dubbing in a crowd or putting the whole project in a "room" using verb or impulses can help, but it's not the same as truly capturing the room as well as the live essence of being at the show. So be careful, make a check-list and don't forget to mic the room! Best of luck to you. :)
 
-Danny

A little controllable room ambiance is nice.  Personally, I try my hardest to be completely self sufficient on location.  Ideally never patching into house systems or giving an unknown sound-person control of your audio.  I did one "modern" music concert recently where I had no choice but to use a feed of prerecorded laptop audio sent to me by the group's LSR system (also a Behringer X32 coincidentally, but rack).  Unfortunately some of the audio was so compressed by the time it reached me it was distorted and unusable.  I was able to get a hold of the original files and replace it.  
 
Results Here:
http://www.instantencore.com/music/details.aspx?PId=5110329
 
So for the most part, whatever is going through a house speaker system, you should avoid recording much of.  And whatever shared elements there are, make sure you have control of it and multi track.

I usually don't get a quiet room on location and do the best I can with good closed back headphones.  
This is a look at the crazy venue.  It took about 5 hours to setup and coordinate everything.  The best advice I can give anyone doing location work is give yourself at least 3 hours to setup before the start.  More for complicated concerts.