Record audio using loopback

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satch100
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2014/11/09 11:30:24 (permalink)

Record audio using loopback

Hi
Forgive my lack of knowledge but I've got some new kit.......a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 and I'm very inexperienced with DAWs. The Pro 26 has got a loopback feature so you can record audio from e.g. Media Player
In the Saffire Mix control I have set DAW 1 and 2 to loopback (Virtual inputs 17 and 18). If I play something in Media Player, the meters respond.
In MC6 I have set up an audio track.....but I can't get it to see the loopback audio. Can someone help me please?
I will have lots of questions in the near future!
Cheers
 
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    Beagle
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/10 13:16:38 (permalink)
    MC is limited to 2 inputs.  you can change which inputs it uses by going to the PREFERENCES>DEVICES (I think that's where it is) and selecting the loopback audio inputs as your inputs to be selected on the tracks.
     
    then go to the track selections and select it there as well.
     
    then you'll have to change it back to the other inputs for recording inputs normally.

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    satch100
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/10 13:58:32 (permalink)
    Hi Beagle
    Thanks for the advice.........yes that works!
    At first I thought it didn't....I made the changes as you said and still nothing showed on the track meters (with record armed). However, I saved the file and re-opened it and the loopback audio now shows on the track meters.
     
    Can I ask you what the function of the Input Echo is please? It sounded awful when switched on!
     
    Thanks again

    Sonar X3 Studio, Focurite Saffire Pro 26, Yamaha CBX-K3, KRK Rokit 5 G3, KRK KNS-6400, TCE  Ibanez JS1000, Boss GT6
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    Beagle
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/10 16:12:05 (permalink)
    Input echo allows you to monitor the input you're recording while you're recording it.  however, if your latency buffers are set high then you'll get a very audible echo delay while you're monitoring.
     
    I don't ever use it myself, I send my output from my soundcard into a mixer and I send my input to my mixer (and use the direct outs on my Mackie to send to my soundcard) and that way I monitor directly without any delay caused by latency.

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    satch100
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/10 16:38:35 (permalink)
    I'm afraid you've lost me! Say I'm doing a guitar lead track and listening to the backing track as I play. With the Input echo off......I can hear the backing track and also what I'm playing. With the input echo on...yes there are latency issues....so why have the option?
     
     

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    Beagle
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/10 17:20:35 (permalink)
    you shouldn't be able to hear the guitar track that you're playing through sonar if you have Input Echo OFF.  UNLESS you have direct monitoring on your soundcard, which I believe you likely do.
     
    I'm betting the saffire pro has "direct monitor" and you probably have that on.  I have a focusrite scarlett 2i2 which has a switch for direct monitor.  if that switch is on, then it mixes the input back into the output directly at the soundcard.
     
    if you use Input Echo, then the input has to go through the soundcard, through the computer, through sonar, then back out to the soundcard again.  the delay between what you're playing and when it plays back is called latency.  it can be as bad as 1/2 or more depending on your soundcard and its drivers.
     
    but if you're using direct monitoring, then the soundcard mixes your input with the output directly for you to hear it real time instead of delayed through the computer.
     
    NOT ALL soundcards have the direct monitor option, tho, so that's why the option for INPUT ECHO is available.

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    satch100
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/10 17:45:11 (permalink)
    Well Focusrite describe the Saffire Mix software as an ultra low latency 26 x 8 mixer/router so I guess thats why. (I thought that was the advantage of ALL audio interfaces......thats why I bought one?). I can see now why the option for Input Echo is in the DAW software though.
     
    I used to use an external mixer with ins and outs from the PC soundcard, guitar, mic etc probably as you do.
    I was told that if I also used soft synths I would probably encounter latency issues so I purchased the Saffire.
     
    Thanks again for your help.

    Sonar X3 Studio, Focurite Saffire Pro 26, Yamaha CBX-K3, KRK Rokit 5 G3, KRK KNS-6400, TCE  Ibanez JS1000, Boss GT6
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    Karyn
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/11 09:05:41 (permalink)
    The main reason for input echo is to deliberately monitor through the computer and Sonar rather than directly from the soundcard or mixer.
     
    Why would you want this?  So you can hear effects live as they're applied. For example, playing your guitar straight into the audio interface and using an amp sim plugin instead of a real amp,  you need to hear the output of the amp sim so you turn on input echo.

    Mekashi Futo
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    satch100
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/11 15:19:45 (permalink)
    Thanks Karyn.
    Is it possible to hear a real time effect but record without the effect? e.g. Say I wanted to record a vocal track and add reverb to the sound the vocalist hears.......but record the track dry?
    I worked out how to do it with my old hardware mixer and external efx but am struggling with my new audio interface and software mixers.

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    scook
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/11 15:25:03 (permalink)
    Music Creator always records dry. Monitoring a track with plug-in effects on it will not record the effects.
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    satch100
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/11 15:33:21 (permalink)
    Thanks.........oh I have got so much to learn.........!
    So in Karyn's example I would hear the amp sim plug in but the recording would be dry?
    post edited by satch100 - 2014/11/11 15:42:40

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    Karyn
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/12 11:34:14 (permalink)
    Yes, the recording would have the plain, dry guitar.
     
    There are those who say using an amp sim does not produce the same results as using a real amp...  well the main difference is the volume you're playing at, especially if you're monitoring with headphones.
    A real amp, unless it's hidden away in another room somewhere, will feedback to the guitar, altering it's tone and giving sustain.  To get the same effect using an amp sim you should turn up your monitors to a similar level...  but then most people don't have a monitor system that'll beat a Marshall stack with two 4x12 cabs in a fair fight!!
     
    The advantage, of course, is that after you've recorded your killer guitar solo you can change your mind about the amp settings without having to re-record the guitar.  Or switch the amp to something else entirely.

    Mekashi Futo
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    Grem
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/12 11:53:09 (permalink)
    Karyn

    There are those who say using an amp sim does not produce the same results as using a real amp... 



    Main reason for this is feel. Latency alters feel. If you ain't feeling it, it ain't happening.

    And you can achieve a good feeling at a reasonable volume too. In headphones it can also be achieved.

    There is a steep learning curve here also. Just grab some tutorials from cakewalktv on YouTube and you'll get it in no time. You have some experience. That will help immensely.

    HTH😊
    post edited by Grem - 2014/11/12 12:39:56

    Grem

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    Beagle
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/12 11:56:23 (permalink)
    satch100
    Thanks.........oh I have got so much to learn.........!
    So in Karyn's example I would hear the amp sim plug in but the recording would be dry?


    yes, the recording would be dry, but if the amp sim is still in the FX of that track then you'll still hear it when you play back the track, but as karyn says you can always change it or delete that sim and you still have your dry track.

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    satch100
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/14 19:14:51 (permalink)
    Thanks everyone. Yes, I have got a bit of previous experience ( years ago using Cakewalk Home Studio) but I did everything wrong! Guitars, vocals etc all recorded wet and the only mixing was just adjusting levels for each track.
    To be honest I never experienced latency problems using my pc soundcard but I presume it was because I was only monitoring pre-recorded tracks and new tracks through my external mixer.
     
    After a break from music playing and recording I recently decided to upgrade to the Saffire audio interface, studio monitors etc and make more use of my ancient midi keyboard. Previously I had only used it with a Yamaha GM sound module but I recently heard and purchased the Zeta 2 software synth....and well, was blown away.
     
    So, I am now 21st century!
     
    I know I should not try to run before I walk.....but bearing in mind that the Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 has more than 2 ins and outs, is there any benefit in me upgrading the MC6 to Sonar X3? 
     
    I also have an old external multi-effects unit (TC Electronics M300 Reverb/delay). How would you best employ it in my setup......if at all?

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    57Gregy
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/15 00:49:20 (permalink)
    If you're a one-man-band, there's no need for the extra ins/outs. If you record entire bands, then yes, more channels would be good.
    But there are other advantages to upgrading, such as being able to use more that 8 synths in a project without bouncing, more standard effects, unlimited tracks, etc.

    Greg 
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    satch100
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/15 18:19:26 (permalink)
    Thanks Greg. So with the advantages of Sonar X3.....and the extra I/O capability how would I be able to use outboard effects?

    Sonar X3 Studio, Focurite Saffire Pro 26, Yamaha CBX-K3, KRK Rokit 5 G3, KRK KNS-6400, TCE  Ibanez JS1000, Boss GT6
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    57Gregy
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    Re: Record audio using loopback 2014/11/17 08:35:56 (permalink)
    Well, you can plug your audio source into the effects box and plug that box into your interface and record live, or record the track dry and loop the audio from the track to the box and record the effected sound in another track (probably best; if you later decide there's too much flange, you still have the dry track to try again).
    Or use VST and/or DX effects in the computer. Easy to use and infinitely variable and can be undone with the click of the mouse.
     

    Greg 
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