Recording Acoustic Guitar Advice

Hello,   I just upgraded to Sonar X1 and have paired it with the Octa Capture.  So far when I record vocals and my roland keyboard the sound is coming out great and I'm very pleased with my new set up.  However, I am not able to get a good acoustic guitar sound.  As a keyboardist, I know almost nothing about the best ways to record guitar.  My guitarist has an acoustic guitar with a acoustic pickup (a d'addario that is placed in the opening by the strings).   When playing through an amp live, it sounds great.  However, through the recording set up the input is very low and it requires me to turn up the level on the Octa Capture to the max.  So then I get a lot of white noise.  Even maxed out, the levels in X1 are pretty low.    I am guessing the pickup is either cheap or not an ideal way to record acoustic.  When trying to mic guitars in the past, I haven't had much luck either as the placement seems difficult and the sound is flat.  Any suggestions on how to get a rich acoustic guitar sound without hiss/white noise?  Thanks! 

from: http://www.rolandus.com/p...ils.php?ProductId=1127


"Input Jack 1—6 (XLR type)5 k ohms (balanced)

Input Jack 7—8 (XLR type)10 k ohms (balanced)

Input Jack 1—8 (1/4 inch TRS phone type)17 k ohms (balanced)"



You need something like a 1.5 MEGA ohm input for that pickup to sound good.

I like those pickups... they can sound real nice.

You should use some sort of buffer amp between the guitar pickup and the line input. A "booster" pedal of some sort would be a good start.

That way the pickup will "see" a input impedance that is matched to it's requirements.


Good luck.


best regards,
mike

I think we are talking about one of these:



Which makes a nice acoustic guitar sound like a killer jazz axe from the 1940's... that's a tone which has stood the test of time.


The Octa Capture doesn't have an instrument input... which is why the "instrument" isn't sounding its best yet.



best regards,
mike

I'll agree with the general consensus that the inbuilt pickup sounds are not really very usable for recording (in my experience and for the guitar sound I am going for - your circumstances/tastes may be different!) But in most recording scenarios, I believe this to be the case. I wouldn't even bother trying.

As for microphones, you have two choices - dynamic and condensor. Dynamics are typically not used as a primary acoustic microphone (they can have their uses, but generally not used). So your best bet is a condensor.

Any cheap (but studio type design) one will sound miles better than what you have now. Generally $150 will get you something that is capable (With the right recording techniques) to get you 90% of the way there.

Now unless you have a very nice room to record in, you'll probably want to record it dry (without the sound of the room) and add artificial ambience/reverb later. Chances are, your room is not very nice acoustically speaking. Hence you'll want to get blankets, mattresses etc set up around you to deaden the recording space and allow you to get a clean signal.

Do NOT point the mic at the sound hole. It will sound boomy and no good. A lot of the brightness and crispness can be had from aiming the mic around the 12th fret (assuming you're not using a capo). You're aiming for about the half way position. So if you've got a capo on 4th, then more like 14 or 15th fret might be a little better. Play with it and see.

The fullness and body comes from the body (duh!). If you're just recording acoustic and no other instruments, this is probably highly desirable. This is where a dynamic mic may work well alongside a condensor on the strings. But not always. A condensor might also work too. If you have lots of other instruments going on, micing here may not really get you the sound you need. My guess is this parahgraph is probably not overly relevant for you at the moment - but it's there just in case. You can likely skip this step.

NEW STRINGS ARE A MUST!!! I personally like the 80/20's over the phospher bronze as they are a bit brighter and for the sound I go for, more suitable. Choose as appropriate.


All the above should get you a great sound. It should be very listenable and workable. There are further things you can do to take it to the next level (better mics ect), but master the above and then decide when you're ready to try and take the next step up.

The best results I ever obtained recording acoustic guitar was to set up a pair of matched ribbons as a Blumlein Pair.

The stereo imaging is breathtaking but you have to be extremely careful where you point the nulls of the ribbons.

Thanks for all the advice.  I will be ordering some new condenser mics for recording the guitar.  I have a Samson CO1 studio condenser that is obviously not the best, but I have used it for vocals and they have turned out pretty well.  I tried to record the guitar last night with that the way that is described here.  The sound did have a lot more depth and richness, though it was still a pretty weak signal.  I had to turn up the signal all the way still... which definitely added some white noise (which I minimized with a compressor) but I would prefer to get a nice clean signal if possible.     If I get better mics will this help that problem? Or will a preamp be necessary with the octa capture?  

Yes, aim the null at something noisy.


best regards,
mike

dont tap your foot...

+1

The Octa Capture doesn't have an instrument input... which is why the "instrument" isn't sounding its best yet.

I wonder what this means as far as recording.  I ordered new guitar condenser mics and aimed it at the neck and the input level is still really low.  Will the octa capture not do well with miked instruments plugged straight into it?

I have recorded classical guitar with an AKG Perception 220 (around $150) and the results were surprisingly good. In fact everything I do with this mic is surprisingly good for the price. 

Do I need a DI if I have a condenser mic? Or should the mics pick up the guitar well enough so that I don't have to turn the input levels all the way up?

    


input levels are a different issue.


no matter what the source, you always want to achieve input levels with the same goal in mind:
a great capture.


you don't want 'overs', but you also don't want a weak signal that might raise your noise floor....


you should always set INPUT LEVELS for their OPTIMUM SETTINGS
\




what is that setting you ask?


well, that's the name of the game, really....
getting to know your equipment, where 'OPTIMUM' really is, and figuring out how each element of the recording chain works GAIN STAGING wise.




after that, it's all about the source, and the TECHNIQUES for capturing the source.


if the guitarist LIKES the sound of the pickup in his guitar, then use it...
but also add in a decent microphone (the choices are huge) and blend them together, favoring the mic over the direct sound.


even the way you blend these together, is a critical element in making the guitar sound... perfect.
you gotta experiment, but look at the basics first.

I have had nice results with this combination (Recordings of my Alvarez acoustic / with built in pickup). Condenser mic at or around the 12th fret --- kind of close up - around 6-8 inches) which is my preference and aimed somewhat away from the sound hole. This goes to one R input of my interface and a mono DAW channel. At the same time, a direct line out to a Fishman Acoustic Aura-16 (a very sweet piece of equipment) set to the guitar/mic emulation of choice- to the R input, and second DAW channel. These are recorded together, then panned L and R, with some corresponding EQ to emphasize the highs and lows from the viewpoint of a listener. I play a lot of fingerpicked chords,  mixed with strums (some muted), so this set up ends up sounding nice. Then I overdub this with just the mic (same position) much higher up on the fretboard with a capo; some intermittent lead or fingerpciking. This is usually panned a little to the right to sort of stand on its own - with volume automation to keep it just under the main guitar - occassionally coming up to fill a space. Vocal is then put down the middle of all this....