Drumtracks
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Recording Drums Through VST
Hi Everyone,
I've done a search and I'm not sure if there is a topic that covers specifically what I'm trying to do. I'll explain my set up and then what I'm trying to do. If anyone can provide some info that would be greatly apprecated. Thanks!
Set Up: Yamaha DTXreme IIs electronic drum set----->M-audio midi cable------> EZ Drummer------>Sonar X1
What I would like to do is set up a template for recording, mixing and and bouncing drum tracks in which all midi notes are seperated into individual tracks so that I can control each drum and cymbal individually. I have already done some recording in Sonar and my EZ Drummer/VST/Midi/Sonar connection is working. What I need to figure out is how to set up the appropriate tracks/type of tracks so that everything gets filtered properly.
I know that generally speaking it's best to keep midi all on one track and split the audio to seperate tracks, but there are situations in which I like to be able to control each drum and cymbal on an idividual basis from the EZ Drummer (soft synth) mixer as there are various options there that would not be available on an idividual drum/cymbal basis if all the drums and cymbals were controlled by one instance of EZ Drummer (for example, I sometimes like to turn the room mic off for the toms but leave it on for the snare drum as well as numerous other options).
Is there a way for me to set up my template so that when I record my drum track all of the midi notes automatically get filtered into sepreate tracks as I record, each of which have a different instance of EZ Drummer (soft synth) attached to it? I send the individual drum tracks to my clients so I also have to "bounce to tracks" for all the midi tracks so that I can create the seperate audio tracks. If I have to record all of the midi data to one track how do I set up my tracks (and what type of tracks do I set up) so that when I use "Split Notes to Tracks" all of the midi data gets split to already created and saved tracks that are each controlled by an indiviudal instance of EZ Drummer and that are pre labelled snare drum, bass drum etc..
I have attempted to do this in many ways but just can't seem to get it to work.
I've used the run cal script for "Spilt Notes to Tracks" but I end up having to manually set up EZ drummer on each track seperately. I'd like to set up a template so that I can just plug and play rather then have to do tedious set up everytime.
If anyone can provide me some info on how to create this template that would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
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bapu
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/26 14:53:53
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This is not a tested practice but a theory. Why not see if you can set your electronic kits MIDI channel different for each kit piece. If it can be done, you would then setup as many MIDI tracks as you have kit pieces and set the input MIDI channel to the correct kit piece and enable record on all MIDI tracks at once.
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/26 19:02:11
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It would seem to me that though you could likely set up the drums that way within multiple instances of EZ Drummer with separate midi channels on each, triggering would I think also require each trigger on the electronic drum set to be set to its own midi channel, or you could never really capture all channels live hope that made sense.
I use a template with Battery 3, and each drum cell is routed to its own audio output, and there are separate audio tracks in Sonar for each drum and cymbal. With that setup, I have individual control over each drum and cymbal, for levels and effects.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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bluzdog
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/26 20:10:52
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You could record one midi track and use the split notes.cal to seperate the performance into multiple tracks.
Rocky
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TStorms
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/27 03:35:12
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Never mind... misread your post
post edited by TStorms - 2012/12/27 03:45:03
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/27 06:53:32
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Drumtracks
Hi Everyone,
I've done a search and I'm not sure if there is a topic that covers specifically what I'm trying to do. I'll explain my set up and then what I'm trying to do. If anyone can provide some info that would be greatly apprecated. Thanks!
Set Up: Yamaha DTXreme IIs electronic drum set----->M-audio midi cable------> EZ Drummer------>Sonar X1
What I would like to do is set up a template for recording, mixing and and bouncing drum tracks in which all midi notes are seperated into individual tracks so that I can control each drum and cymbal individually. I have already done some recording in Sonar and my EZ Drummer/VST/Midi/Sonar connection is working. What I need to figure out is how to set up the appropriate tracks/type of tracks so that everything gets filtered properly.
I know that generally speaking it's best to keep midi all on one track and split the audio to seperate tracks, but there are situations in which I like to be able to control each drum and cymbal on an idividual basis from the EZ Drummer (soft synth) mixer as there are various options there that would not be available on an idividual drum/cymbal basis if all the drums and cymbals were controlled by one instance of EZ Drummer (for example, I sometimes like to turn the room mic off for the toms but leave it on for the snare drum as well as numerous other options).
Is there a way for me to set up my template so that when I record my drum track all of the midi notes automatically get filtered into sepreate tracks as I record, each of which have a different instance of EZ Drummer (soft synth) attached to it? I send the individual drum tracks to my clients so I also have to "bounce to tracks" for all the midi tracks so that I can create the seperate audio tracks. If I have to record all of the midi data to one track how do I set up my tracks (and what type of tracks do I set up) so that when I use "Split Notes to Tracks" all of the midi data gets split to already created and saved tracks that are each controlled by an indiviudal instance of EZ Drummer and that are pre labelled snare drum, bass drum etc..
I have attempted to do this in many ways but just can't seem to get it to work.
I've used the run cal script for "Spilt Notes to Tracks" but I end up having to manually set up EZ drummer on each track seperately. I'd like to set up a template so that I can just plug and play rather then have to do tedious set up everytime.
If anyone can provide me some info on how to create this template that would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Everything you're mentioning is, unfortunately, more trouble than it's worth. I gave up on multiple midi tracks for drums long ago. There's really no major benefit to it other than to send the individual midi's to another module or if you feel the need to do extreme editing and the other notes in the midi are getting in your way. Your best bet is split notes to tracks cal file if you need it. You will always have to set it up though and creating a template out of it wouldn't do any good. Let's look at Bapu's method...which looks good on paper, but still won't work. How do you tell your midi track you create, which drum to trigger? You can't. Your drum brain operates on channel 10. The midi notes are all sending on channel 10 as well. How do you make a midi note send to a midi channel? If it can be done, you're looking at a lot of work to make it possible. I have my V-Drums set up right now experimenting with this for you...and for the life of me, I can't figure out how the heck I would get the notes to split BEFORE I actually play anything without doing intense editing in my drum brain...which I think would be a nightmare and quite pointless if it's even possible. The only way you could do it using this method (as far as I know) is to record each drum piece individually. You know how bad that would suck though...so it's not worth it. There IS another way but it will be a nightmare to set up due to EZD not being powerful enough and you will need multiple modules of EZD instances. At the end of it though, even with mulitple modules, it will come out to having one full instance loaded up sample size wise. I'll explain as I know that sounds confusing. This ain't gonna be easy and will require some work, but I can't think of any other way. Create a midi track and then create an instance of EZD. When you load up EZD, kill all the instruments in it except for the kick drum. Send your midi track to this instance of EZD 1. Create another midi for your snare. Load up another instance of EZD and route the midi out to EZD 2. It will auto-number each instance. When EZD loads up samples, kill all samples except for the snare. Keep on doing this for each midi track and instance of EZD you create until you have enough midi tracks and instances of EZD to cover all your instruments singularly. From there when you record, you'll still get your full kit playing on every midi track, but each track will only be triggering the instance of EZD that you've assigned to it. From there, if you want to, you can go into each midi track and delete all the extra information other than the drum that is physically triggering that instance of EZD. Watch when messing with your hat tracks as you will have CC information for open/closed hats that you don't want removed. For example on how to do this in detail, after you record, you go to your kick drum midi track and highlite every midi note in the track other than the kick drum line. Do the rest for all the other midi tracks so only the instrument you want is there. This is the only way I can see this working. To me, it's not worth the extra work to be honest. I have no problems using a single midi track for all my drums and if I need to do something intense with the midi, I just clone the track and delete all the information that is not needed in the clone. Like there are times when I create a midi of my drums and send them to Superior Drummer. I may not like the cymbal sounds. So I clone the midi track and bring in an instance of BFD 2. I mute all cymbal samples in Superior so when that midi file plays, no cymbals from Superior will be triggered. In my BFD module, I've loaded up nothing but cymbals so all the other midi notes on the midi track I've cloned will not trigger any sounds other than the ones mapped to my BFD 2 cymbals. If I decide I want to delete all the information in the midi track that is being sent to BFD2, I can do that and just leave the cymbal midi notes there. To me, this is much faster and less painless. Remember, you can run as many drum modules as you need while using SINGULAR instruments within them. It's when you load 10 full kits that you will notice your machine start to bog down. But with single kit pieces in ANY drum module, you can load up 25 or more without seeing any issues as it is only handling one sample per module. This is great for mixing and matching kit pieces from other modules or when doing hybrid type stuff. I do it all the time and use 32 bit Sonar here....I've never had to freeze any instances nor do I get any lag or slowdown in my system. Good luck...hope some of this helps. -Danny
post edited by Danny Danzi - 2012/12/27 07:45:49
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/27 07:01:24
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bapu
This is not a tested practice but a theory. Why not see if you can set your electronic kits MIDI channel different for each kit piece. If it can be done, you would then setup as many MIDI tracks as you have kit pieces and set the input MIDI channel to the correct kit piece and enable record on all MIDI tracks at once.
Don't think this can be done. It's not possible on the most expensive Roland drum modules and it would surprise me to find this feature on a Yamaha kit. It's usually one MIDI channel for all notes leaving the drum module ... Another theory here (as I never to bothered to try this): set up a MIDI track for each drum kit instrument (kick, snare, ...) and use MIDI filter plugin (from FX bin) to get only the notes you want on each track. Mind you, you have to be carefule with what you filter because MIDI output from expensive modules comes with all sorts of extra MIDI CC information, after touch and whatever else there is in the MIDI standard. If you don't record it all (or filter too much) your play back will sound different (much worse) as you might lose e.g. all that positional sensing, cymbal choking etc. Another thing I'd be worried is latency because you'd have to monitor using the sounds from EZ drummer (different drum sound = different playing style) and unless you get the latency really low you'll have troubles getting the groove going ...
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twaddle
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/27 07:39:04
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I'd say Danny has pretty much hit the nail on the head as he so often does. EZdrummer just doesn't have the level of tweak-ability that you're looking for so you're having to take long laborious steps in order to try and achieve what can easily be done in either Superior drummer, BFD2 or BFD Eco. Depending on your budget you might want to have a look at fxpansion as they have a 35% off sale on BFD2 and 30% off BFD Eco. The latter of which will be less of a leap from EZdrummer in terms of learning. Superior may well have a sale on too and since you already own ezdrummer you should get a good upgrade price too. Steve I just checked the superior upgrade price and I'm sure there must be a cheaper one but the toontrack site has it as $250 whilst BFD2 at the current sale price will cost you $199 or $69 for BFD Eco. Like I said, I'm sure someone can find a cheaper deal on superior but that was from their site. superior cross grade BFD Eco & BFD2 sale price Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2012/12/27 12:03:28
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Loptec
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/27 07:43:38
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Drumtracks
Hi Everyone,
I've done a search and I'm not sure if there is a topic that covers specifically what I'm trying to do. I'll explain my set up and then what I'm trying to do. If anyone can provide some info that would be greatly apprecated. Thanks!
Set Up: Yamaha DTXreme IIs electronic drum set----->M-audio midi cable------> EZ Drummer------>Sonar X1
What I would like to do is set up a template for recording, mixing and and bouncing drum tracks in which all midi notes are seperated into individual tracks so that I can control each drum and cymbal individually. I have already done some recording in Sonar and my EZ Drummer/VST/Midi/Sonar connection is working. What I need to figure out is how to set up the appropriate tracks/type of tracks so that everything gets filtered properly.
I know that generally speaking it's best to keep midi all on one track and split the audio to seperate tracks, but there are situations in which I like to be able to control each drum and cymbal on an idividual basis from the EZ Drummer (soft synth) mixer as there are various options there that would not be available on an idividual drum/cymbal basis if all the drums and cymbals were controlled by one instance of EZ Drummer (for example, I sometimes like to turn the room mic off for the toms but leave it on for the snare drum as well as numerous other options).
Is there a way for me to set up my template so that when I record my drum track all of the midi notes automatically get filtered into sepreate tracks as I record, each of which have a different instance of EZ Drummer (soft synth) attached to it? I send the individual drum tracks to my clients so I also have to "bounce to tracks" for all the midi tracks so that I can create the seperate audio tracks. If I have to record all of the midi data to one track how do I set up my tracks (and what type of tracks do I set up) so that when I use "Split Notes to Tracks" all of the midi data gets split to already created and saved tracks that are each controlled by an indiviudal instance of EZ Drummer and that are pre labelled snare drum, bass drum etc..
I have attempted to do this in many ways but just can't seem to get it to work.
I've used the run cal script for "Spilt Notes to Tracks" but I end up having to manually set up EZ drummer on each track seperately. I'd like to set up a template so that I can just plug and play rather then have to do tedious set up everytime.
If anyone can provide me some info on how to create this template that would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Instead of having the notes on different MIDI-tracks, you still can edit the individual drums by selecting the option Notes -> Show Velocity on Selected Notes Only - in the PRV. Now, just click the note you want to edit on the diatonic keyboard to the left, and the velocities of only these notes will show in the controller pane It's much easier to have all drums in one track. Especially if you want to re-build patterns and such. If you have the notes in different tracks you have to first select the track you want to make changes in before you can edit and this is (if anything) very time-consuming
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
 DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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twaddle
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/27 07:52:54
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Instead of having the notes on different MIDI-tracks, you still can edit the individual drums by selecting the option Notes -> Show Velocity on Selected Notes Only - in the PRV.
Now, just click the note you want to edit on the diatonic keyboard to the left, and the velocities of only these notes will show in the controller pane
It's much easier to have all drums in one track. Especially if you want to re-build patterns and such. If you have the notes
in different tracks you have to first select the track you want to make changes in before you can edit and this is (if anything)
very time-consuming
I didn't read anything about wanting to change velocities, that's just the most basic stuff that any softsynth can do. What "drumtracks" did say was that he sometimes likes to turn the room mic off for the toms but leave it on for the snare drum as well as numerous other options. He won't be able to do that in the piano roll or in ezdrummer it's self.
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/27 07:53:24
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Loptec
Drumtracks
Hi Everyone,
I've done a search and I'm not sure if there is a topic that covers specifically what I'm trying to do. I'll explain my set up and then what I'm trying to do. If anyone can provide some info that would be greatly apprecated. Thanks!
Set Up: Yamaha DTXreme IIs electronic drum set----->M-audio midi cable------> EZ Drummer------>Sonar X1
What I would like to do is set up a template for recording, mixing and and bouncing drum tracks in which all midi notes are seperated into individual tracks so that I can control each drum and cymbal individually. I have already done some recording in Sonar and my EZ Drummer/VST/Midi/Sonar connection is working. What I need to figure out is how to set up the appropriate tracks/type of tracks so that everything gets filtered properly.
I know that generally speaking it's best to keep midi all on one track and split the audio to seperate tracks, but there are situations in which I like to be able to control each drum and cymbal on an idividual basis from the EZ Drummer (soft synth) mixer as there are various options there that would not be available on an idividual drum/cymbal basis if all the drums and cymbals were controlled by one instance of EZ Drummer (for example, I sometimes like to turn the room mic off for the toms but leave it on for the snare drum as well as numerous other options).
Is there a way for me to set up my template so that when I record my drum track all of the midi notes automatically get filtered into sepreate tracks as I record, each of which have a different instance of EZ Drummer (soft synth) attached to it? I send the individual drum tracks to my clients so I also have to "bounce to tracks" for all the midi tracks so that I can create the seperate audio tracks. If I have to record all of the midi data to one track how do I set up my tracks (and what type of tracks do I set up) so that when I use "Split Notes to Tracks" all of the midi data gets split to already created and saved tracks that are each controlled by an indiviudal instance of EZ Drummer and that are pre labelled snare drum, bass drum etc..
I have attempted to do this in many ways but just can't seem to get it to work.
I've used the run cal script for "Spilt Notes to Tracks" but I end up having to manually set up EZ drummer on each track seperately. I'd like to set up a template so that I can just plug and play rather then have to do tedious set up everytime.
If anyone can provide me some info on how to create this template that would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Instead of having the notes on different MIDI-tracks, you still can edit the individual drums by selecting the option
Notes -> Show Velocity on Selected Notes Only - in the PRV.
Now, just click the note you want to edit on the diatonic keyboard to the left, and the velocities of only these notes will show in the controller pane
It's much easier to have all drums in one track. Especially if you want to re-build patterns and such. If you have the notes
in different tracks you have to first select the track you want to make changes in before you can edit and this is (if anything)
very time-consuming
Agreed....VERY time consuming and a pain in the butt because any editing will need to be done on individual tracks. This was one of the reasons I totally gave up on the singular midi tracks option. I just couldn't find a need for it other than to send individual midi tracks to other drum modules to mix and match. As a side note to my post up there ^ this is what I was talking about with EZD. This is an old pic using an old version of Sonar, but it remains the same. You'll notice all the different modules in place. Once you have them all in your synth rack, you can custom name them as I've done. In this particular example, I didn't go too crazy. Most times when I've done this, I could have 12 or more modules. But in this one, all toms were in one module where I normally separate them individually. But each instance of EZD will show an over-all sample load that equals all modules that are being used. For example, those modules you see are using 320 mb worth of samples and each module will say the same because they sum from one another. The only issue you may experience with this method is, each instance will not load your samples upon loading your project. You will need to double click and open each instance to get it to load the samples. This is a drag, but one of the side effects from this method.  See it close up here: http://www.dannydanzi.com/Media/EzdHybridExtreme.jpg -Danny (sorry about that, pic wasn't loading!) Edited for spelling
post edited by Danny Danzi - 2012/12/27 10:33:54
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/27 08:02:06
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Just looking at the Yamaha DTXtreme manual I think FreeFlyBertl is correct in that it is sending all the midi notes out on one midi channel only. There is a way of transmitting each kit piece on a different midi channel but it involves not using the DTXtreme at all but something else and that may be hard to get. (unless you can pick one up on ebay) I have an AKAI unit called an ME35T which is a rack mount unit that accepts 8 audio or trigger inputs and can generate midi out data. It is lightening fast and you have got enormous control over the way it responds and what it sends out including every trigger input generating midi notes on a different midi channel. You would plug your drum pads and things into this instead of the Yamaha brain. Seems like you don't want any of the sounds in the brain anyway. This is the ultimate thing for simply converting drum pads, sensors or mikes even into midi notes. It also merges any incoming midi data (eg from a Roland Octapad etc) and feeds that out as well to the midi out. When you are using it with microphones it has all sorts of settings to avoid false triggers as well from neighbouring drums etc.. That way you could then do what Danny is suggesting and set-up a VST on separate tracks for each kit piece and you would be able to do all of this in real time. No splitting or anything later just put all the tracks into record at once. There is one here for sale and it is not very expensive either: http://www.ebay.com/itm/A...mp;hash=item416f7985b0 The first major limitation is the Yamaha drum brain not being able to send out on sep midi channels. Once you get over that problem then it could be possible depending then on what VST's you are using etc..
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2012/12/27 08:15:42
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Loptec
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/27 08:52:07
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twaddle
Instead of having the notes on different MIDI-tracks, you still can edit the individual drums by selecting the option
Notes -> Show Velocity on Selected Notes Only - in the PRV.
Now, just click the note you want to edit on the diatonic keyboard to the left, and the velocities of only these notes will show in the controller pane
It's much easier to have all drums in one track. Especially if you want to re-build patterns and such. If you have the notes
in different tracks you have to first select the track you want to make changes in before you can edit and this is (if anything)
very time-consuming
I didn't read anything about wanting to change velocities, that's just the most basic stuff that any softsynth can do.
What "drumtracks" did say was that he sometimes likes to turn the room mic off for the toms but leave it on for the snare drum as well as numerous other options.
He won't be able to do that in the piano roll or in ezdrummer it's self.
well, yes.. there are a few things that don't come out clear in the original post. One thing he says though is "in which all midi notes are seperated into individual tracks so that I can control each drum and cymbal individually". Because of this i wanted to explain why it's better to keep the MIDI coming from one VST in the same MIDI-track and (IF velocity maybe would be one of the reasons he'd like to seperate the notes) I also included info on how to edit separate notes in one track, taking velocity as an example since this is the only data stored in each MIDI-on msg aside from note-number
post edited by Loptec - 2012/12/27 08:58:30
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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PansFolly
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/27 12:00:45
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Haven't tried this but I think it should work.
1) Set up multiple midi tracks, one for each drum.
2) Record enable all the tracks, and turn on Input Echo if desired.
3) Add a "Midi Event Filter" plugin to each track.
4) Set the filters to only allow the single note for the drum to pass through.
Once its working save it as a template.
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Loptec
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/27 12:33:32
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PansFolly
Haven't tried this but I think it should work.
1) Set up multiple midi tracks, one for each drum.
2) Record enable all the tracks, and turn on Input Echo if desired.
3) Add a "Midi Event Filter" plugin to each track.
4) Set the filters to only allow the single note for the drum to pass through.
Once its working save it as a template.
It would be nice if it worked. But I think the MIDI-plugins doesn't filter pre-record, but only filter what's played back from a track. .,I'm not sure though, but .. I think this is how it works. So, all notes will be recorded to all track even though only the notes selected in the filter will be passed through when played back. It would be a great feature though to be able to choose if the MIDI-plugins were to be applied pre or post recording! :) Maybe put this on the wish-list for future versions of Sonar!
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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lawajava
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/28 02:36:16
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I'm surprised there are such strong opinions about this. I've been recording midi drums for years with Sonar - with one midi input cable and resulting in a separate midi track for each piece of the drum kit. I just set the midi out for each piece of the drum kit to a different midi channel. I have a midi track set up to receive each incoming channel. Session Drummer 3 is ideal for sounds and I can alternatively use an external midi sound device like a drum machine to fire sounds on playback and/ or live recording as well. Totally doable, I do it on every song.
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/28 03:06:09
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I just set the midi out for each piece of the drum kit to a different midi channel.... OK cool lawajava how do you do that.? Do you lay down each part of the drum kit piece by piece? (from a keyboard) That is not playing drums. Read the OP. He is a live player and is playing a Yamaha DTXtreme electronic kit live. All in one go, all parts at once. The Yamaha kit won't allow it because it transmits everything on one midi channel. I did not realise the OP was using the IIs model from the DTXtreme. I checked that manual as well (just to make sure) and the same applies in terms of transmitting on one midi channel only. The method I have mentioned in my post #12 allows it but using the AKAI ME35T. I would say most electronic kits would not allow sep midi channels of each piece of the kit. But obviously AKAI decided it was a good thing to do for that extra versatility.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2012/12/28 04:05:15
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mudgel
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/28 03:15:09
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lawajava
I'm surprised there are such strong opinions about this. I've been recording midi drums for years with Sonar - with one midi input cable and resulting in a separate midi track for each piece of the drum kit. I just set the midi out for each piece of the drum kit to a different midi channel. I have a midi track set up to receive each incoming channel. Session Drummer 3 is ideal for sounds and I can alternatively use an external midi sound device like a drum machine to fire sounds on playback and/ or live recording as well. Totally doable, I do it on every song.
Which Electronic drums are you using that allow you to do this?
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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twaddle
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/28 08:30:06
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That's interesting I don't use V-drums so my knowledge is tiny with regards to such things. I would have thought that routing each hit to a separate midi channel should be doable in theory but since people here said otherwise I was in no position to argue. I would still recommend that drumtracks get something with greater tweakability like Superior drummer, BFD2 or BFD Eco and given the current sale price of BFD2 it is currently cheaper than upgrading to Superior Drummer The mixing capabilities of both are a huge leap forward in comparison to Ezdrummer and setting up templates with room overhead and ambient mics set how you like them is simple in comparison to the lengthy workarounds suggested here. As I said above, the BFD2 BFD Eco and other fxpansion goodies sale ends on the 31st of December. Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2012/12/28 08:41:23
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Beepster
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/28 09:50:48
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So this is a limitation of the kit? I figured it'd be pretty easy to get all the pieces separated. I've done it with BFD and my pK but obviously I'm missing something.
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/28 10:59:31
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lawajava
I'm surprised there are such strong opinions about this. I've been recording midi drums for years with Sonar - with one midi input cable and resulting in a separate midi track for each piece of the drum kit. I just set the midi out for each piece of the drum kit to a different midi channel. I have a midi track set up to receive each incoming channel. Session Drummer 3 is ideal for sounds and I can alternatively use an external midi sound device like a drum machine to fire sounds on playback and/ or live recording as well. Totally doable, I do it on every song.
Can you please tell us how this is possible and what you use to do it? Regardless if you can...if you can't do it with what the OP is using, with all due respect, it's pretty moot. -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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dke
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/28 14:24:13
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I used to use a cal script that splits the notes to separate tracks after recording. Even that though to me was more trouble than it was worth.
Dan
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Drumtracks
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/31 06:51:33
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Hi Jeff, Bapu, Danny and Everyone else,
Sorry for not replying sooner. Thanks so much for all your suggestions and expertise. It is greatly appreciated. I will be trying some of these ideas out over the next week or so and will get back to you. Jeff, I think you are right, unless my Yamaha DTXtreme IIs can send each drum pad on a seperate midi channel (seems like you looked this up and it can't) then I may need to look into some gear that can do this by skipping over the Yamaha computer. Thanks again everyone and I'll check in again in a week or so when I've tried out some of these ideas! Thanks so much and again, sorry for the late reply.
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tlw
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2012/12/31 08:46:57
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Just a thought, but a custom drum map might help.
Load up as many instances of the drum sampler as needed. Each will show as an individual port in the output section of a drum map. Assign kick to one, snare to another, etc.
You'd still end up with all the MIDI in a single track, but the drum map will route the MIDI notes to the various synths.
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lawajava
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2013/01/01 04:00:10
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All - okay so the OP has a one midi channel out. So I agree that's a different challenge and my original post doesn't solve the OP's question. But for others interested and to reply to mudgel I use a Roland TD-12 drum kit. The brain of that allows setting each pad, rim, cymbal, and cymbal edge to a different midi out signal. So you can play live or record to different midi tracks while playing live. It's great. Obviously this provides flexibility for setting sounds against those midi tracks and for mixing etc.
post edited by lawajava - 2013/01/01 18:52:36
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2013/01/01 07:49:02
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Hi Roger, The TD8 looks very good. Except that I have downloaded the manual and from what I can see all the drum pads still transmit out on one midi channel only , it is the Parts only that can send on different midi channels. But I am probably wrong of course. Can you run through the procedure of how to set each pad to send on a different midi channel. I am curious. Unless various pads can be assigned to parts but then there are only 4 parts that can transmit (plus a kit channel and a percussion channel which could make it 6 parts transmitting on sep midi channels) so does that mean you are only limited to sending out on 4 midi channels at once. If this is how it works then it still better than the Yamaha brain. But not as good as the AKAI ME35T which can send 8 things out at once on any of the 16 midi channels. It is interesting this because if anyone is looking to buy an electronic kit one should look carefully into the midi implementation to see if it can do things like sending out individual pads on sep midi channels. Sure you may not need it if you are going to use the brain provided to make the sounds but if you are wanting to control a bunch of VST's all set to different channels in your DAW then it will be a feature you will require. To the OP the AKAI ME35T sold but only for around $30 which isn't a lot considering how powerful and useful it is especially for what you are trying to do. You will find they come up regularly and it would still be the cheapest option rather than changing over to a completely different electronic drum kit.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2013/01/01 08:12:53
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Loptec
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2013/01/01 09:52:43
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I don't know about the TD-8 nor the Yamaha DTXreme II, but I own a Roland TD-20 kit and with this it's possible to assign each pad to different MIDI-channels. So with some some electronic kits it is possible. I still don't understand why anyone would like to do this though.
You can still separate the drums onto different tracks audio-wise without splitting the MIDI and this will give you control over each sound, if it's the sound character we're talking about. With MIDI you have great control over the different drums just using one MIDI-track.
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2013/01/01 16:29:23
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Hi there Loptec. It looks as though you are correct in terms of creating different midi channels for each pad and if you can do it on the TD 20 then I am sure the TD 8 should be able to do it as well.
I guess the reasoning here is that you set up VST's on sep tracks for each piece of the drum kit and be able to trigger them all at once with live playing. It also creates sep tracks for each part all at once too which might be a time saver and handy. Is there another way of doing it, that is the question.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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lawajava
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2013/01/01 19:19:55
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Jeff - I'll provide some details here to answer your question and/or in subsequent messages. Loptec is right of course that you can just use one Midi track if you like. I prefer the control and flexibility of a separate Midi track for each piece of the drum kit/performance. The Roland TD-12 allows for selecting the midi output per pad or cymbal or rim etc. To set it we just hit the drum stick on the target(a drum pad, a rim, a cymbal, or a cymbal edge) and then set the midi output for that particular spot on the display from the Roland unit. In our case, we don't actually use the Roland TD-12 sounds at all, we just use the drum set as an input device and it does that extremely well. We have one Midi Out cable coming from the Roland TD-12, that's it. The Midi Out cable goes into our Midi In port for our studio. In our case, we happen to use multiple external Midi sound modules so I have a Motu Express 8x8 Midi interface when I'm using the DM Pro. When I'm just recording straight to Session Drummer 3, I can use that same port, or if I'm mobile and detached from the studio, I can just use a single Midi input port on my Scarlett audio interface. In Karl's Sonar X2 video he covers one of the less explained spots within Sonar, the Define Instruments section. His explanation is good to understand that. I've Defined the Alesis DM Pro as an external sound module, so I'm able to point to which DM Pro patch I want to use directly from within each drum track. Of course since its an external sound module (the Alesis DM Pro) it also has audio outs which output the sound from the selected patch, and those audio signals route into the audio interface as inputs. I happen to use a couple other sound sources in addition to the DM Pro. I like the ride sound from another device, and the snare rim shot (stick) from another one. By using the Midi track by track break out method I'm able to use multiple external devices either live or on playback to get the overall drum kit sound I'm looking for. When using Session Drummer 3 I can do that all within the one VST itself. Once I have the Midi tracks recorded and or edited to our liking, then I can record the audio onto audio tracks. Once again, I prefer to have a separate audio track each for snare, kick, toms, crashes, ride, hi-hat, etc. It's a breeze to edit drums in Midi if the different drum kit pieces are on separate tracks. From Session Drummer 3 it's easy to freeze the synth and get each of the audio tracks broken out to their own track. For external sound modules, like when we use the DM Pro and others, we solo each Midi track component and one by one record those to their designated audio tracks. Sounds bad, but that's how it is with external sound modules. If you want the sound as an audio track, you have to record it as an audio track. Works fine for us and we like the sound flexibility.
Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
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jimkleban
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Re:Recording Drums Through VST
2013/01/01 19:53:23
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Dont know if this will help you and I wasn't going to read the entire thread so this info could be totally useless as well....
If you record all the drums MIDI into one track, there is a midi tool in SONAR that will create individual MIDI tracks for each note in the original track.... from there you mixing routing options are many.
Jim
The Lamb Laid Down on MIDI www.lldom.com Studio Cat Custom i7 with Thunderbolt (wonderful system built and configured by our own Jim R) Apollo Duo (via TB) UAD Quad UAD Duo WIN 8.1 x64 with 32 GB Ram 4 SSD for programs and sample libraries Splat (latest version)
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