Astrumur
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8
- Joined: 2014/12/30 14:34:08
- Location: Round Lake, IL
- Status: offline
Recording Interfaces
I've decided that I'm going to buy Sonar X3 Producer and switch my studio over to a virtual board studio, with a touch screen monitor. My problem is which interface to get. My needs are simple, which is the ability to record 16 channels simultaneously, 8 XLR mic in's (4 are condenser mics), and 8 line-ins. My research has taken me to: M-Audio Profire, RME Fireface 800, Tascam, Konnekt and others. I still don't know which to buy. Any tips I can get would be most helpful. Could I get away with 12 ins? Maybe for a time, but eventually I'll need the additional in's (some solutions require 2 units). Thanks very much.
|
BlixYZ
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
- Total Posts : 805
- Joined: 2010/12/31 16:45:54
- Location: Barrington, NJ
- Status: offline
Re: Recording Interfaces
2014/12/30 16:11:51
(permalink)
☼ Best Answerby Astrumur 2014/12/30 16:10:58
I use the profire 2626 with the M-Audio Octane via ADAT for 16 ins. It is a great setup, but my eyes are starting to wander. Truth be told, all the pres sound great. A little "low", maybe. The software mixer is everything i need: I use real time monitoring with reverb on an aux (spdif channels) so i can record it OR just use it for "wetter" monitoring of vox two unique headphone mixes (more possible, but not easy with my infrastructure) i often record from more than 12 channels and I've never had a hiccup.
James W BlixYZ Recording Studio BlixYZ Records Audient ASP800 thru Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 Mackie Control Universal + C4 Yamaha HS50's plus Matching Sub, Tannoy 501a Blue Baby Bottle, AT 4050, Neumann TLM 103, etc. UA 610, Focusrite/ART/Neve 2CH. Windows 10
|
Astrumur
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8
- Joined: 2014/12/30 14:34:08
- Location: Round Lake, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Recording Interfaces
2014/12/30 16:26:10
(permalink)
Thanks, James.....why do you need ADAT? It that how you get from 12 to 16 ins? (I don't have the Sonar product yet, so I assume 'spdif' channels are just a way to set up a monitor bus). I have a headphone amp I can engage when I have more than 2 musicians recording. What has your wandering eye been looking at? Bruce
|
johnnyV
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2677
- Joined: 2010/02/22 11:46:33
- Location: Here, in my chair
- Status: offline
Re: Recording Interfaces
2014/12/30 17:19:31
(permalink)
SPDIF is a stereo digital in/out format like optical but uses RCA conections. ADAT is a multi channel digital connection. To use these you need the equipment that has these connection. You might want to look into some of the new digital multi track mixing boards like the X32 or the Q mix. On a simple level I own the Tascam us1641 which now has updated model is the US 16x08. It has 8 XLR and 8 line inputs. so 16 tracks of audio in one pass. It is still only $300 and works perfectly for live recording. The drivers are reported to work good with Sonar as the 2 company's are now affiliated. http://www.bhphotovideo.c...io_midi_interface.html
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
|
Astrumur
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8
- Joined: 2014/12/30 14:34:08
- Location: Round Lake, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Recording Interfaces
2014/12/30 18:11:45
(permalink)
Johnny, Thanks, man....that really seems like a good product for my needs. It's very economical, too. I hope that doesn't mean I'll be sacrificing and audio quality. I'm trying to migrate away from mechanical boards. It's a little bit daunting for a 62 year old dude, knowing I have to learn how to operate new software and all. But I've done it before with Akai and Roland platforms. I started out with an analog 8 track (Otari 1/2") and a Tascam M50 board with a bunch of rack effects, a big stereo spring reverb and was mixing down to a Studer-Revox half-track, so I find this digital world unbelievably cool. And no more worrying about bad connections or wires that are shorting and making noise. It's awesome. Thanks a bunch!
|
BlixYZ
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
- Total Posts : 805
- Joined: 2010/12/31 16:45:54
- Location: Barrington, NJ
- Status: offline
Re: Recording Interfaces
2014/12/30 20:46:17
(permalink)
James W BlixYZ Recording Studio BlixYZ Records Audient ASP800 thru Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 Mackie Control Universal + C4 Yamaha HS50's plus Matching Sub, Tannoy 501a Blue Baby Bottle, AT 4050, Neumann TLM 103, etc. UA 610, Focusrite/ART/Neve 2CH. Windows 10
|
Astrumur
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8
- Joined: 2014/12/30 14:34:08
- Location: Round Lake, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Recording Interfaces
2014/12/31 00:07:27
(permalink)
James....I checked the link. Nice toy, but too pricey for me. I agree on the final output being more dependent on skill, content, etc. The Tascam is out of stock for a month or so, so I have time to decide. In the meantime, I'll get the other components in place. Thanks very much for taking the time to share....Bruce
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Recording Interfaces
2014/12/31 05:16:12
(permalink)
Have a look at the current Focusrite range.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2567
- Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
- Location: West Midlands, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Recording Interfaces
2014/12/31 07:29:40
(permalink)
Astrumur My research has taken me to: M-Audio Profire, RME Fireface 800, Tascam, Konnekt and others.
It really comes down to (a) the quality you need and (b) how much you want to spend. RME are very good and have excellent low-latency ASIO drivers (I would say that I suppose seeing as I've got one), but are not exactly cheap. I have a Fireface UFX (connected by USB, not firewire) plus a Focusrite Octopre linked to it by ADAT which gives me 8 "pure" line ins on the RME and 12 XLR/line inputs split between the UFX and Octopre plus far more outputs than I know what to do with. What I would suggest is being wary of firewire interfaces on PCs. They are very sensitive to which firewire chip is at the PC end and there may be driver issues as well. To complicate matters further many USB interfaces won't work properly if attached to a USB3 socket on the PC - they need a USB2 socket to work. As USB2 is likely to disappear from PCs before too long (there are already laptops with only USB3) it's worth checking any interface you choose is USB3 compatible. The other thing to check is how good the manufacturer is at providing up to date drivers - a new version of WIndows can make your interface obselete without good driver support. Personally, I've seen M-Audio ignore new versions of Windows for months (or even years) far too often to want to give them any more of my money.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
|
Astrumur
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8
- Joined: 2014/12/30 14:34:08
- Location: Round Lake, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Recording Interfaces
2014/12/31 10:13:47
(permalink)
Thanks, Bristol-Jonesy, I'll check them out. And tlw, this is the kind of info that is really helpful, thanks. I will be using Windows, so this is critical. The good news is, I haven't bought the PC yet. I'm not going to use my current PC, but rather keep is as just a 'home computer'. It doesn't meet the system requirements of Sonar. Thanks to you, I'll be cognizant of the USB thing. I see you have 16GB of RAM. Is that to cover other things you do on your PC, or is that due to your recording needs? I was going to get 8GB of RAM. I still don't fully understand why some users have ADAT as well as Sonar. Is i because they are integrating their old system with Sonar? My plan was to buy the PC, the interface, a touchscreen monitor and the Sonar software and be done. You people have been great, thanks so much. I've enjoyed being part of the VS users group for the past several years, also populated with friendly and forthcoming users. I'll keep my Roland 2480DVD as a portable recording platform, because it's great for that. I bought the road case when I got the machine. Now, back to looking at interfaces!
|
AT
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10654
- Joined: 2004/01/09 10:42:46
- Location: TeXaS
- Status: offline
Re: Recording Interfaces
2014/12/31 11:04:24
(permalink)
As others have said, it is best to get an idea of how much money you want to spend and how much you intend to sell professionally. If the latter, you need to spend a little more because there is always some little twit thinking that x y or z brand is necessary. Otherwise you spend the first part of any session explaining your system to some one that doesn't know anything but the adds they've read in a magazine but is sure that is what they need. If for your personal use, you have a lot more leeway as long as you realize finding a single interface w/ 16 ins/outs is costly - most of those are made for professional studios. Lynx comes to mind, tho at a more reasonable price the new MOTO line might fit your bill. What you most likely have to do is find an 8 X 8 interface w/ ADAT expansion (ADAT being a digital in/out format). You can spend a couple of hundred dollars on an 8 X 8 preamp and converter (Behringer) to closer to $1000 (Presonus) and over (Audient). These are separate hardware units that simply plug into your interface and expand your system. another route is stacking, whereby units from the same company can aggregate together (something ASIO drivers don't normally do). So 2 8 X 8 units double your fun. My own set up includes a TC Konnekt 48 which has 4 preamps, 8 additional line inputs, spidf and ADAT in/outs. You can stack the whole family, tho I haven't tried it. The hardware is superb, conversion is very good and preamps good and it comes w/ some great DSP (including reverb from the TC 4000). It is cheap considering the quality since the original drivers were horrible and the reputation never recovered. The drivers are fixed now but it can still be found for $1000 any day - and I got mine at less than that. It would be easy to add preamps from a mixer for the line inputs, getting close to your requirements before counting the digital ins. I use mine w/ a Tascam UH-7000 hooked up via spdif - the 7000 is a new high end preamp/converter that I use as my main converters and for overdubs. (Tascam has some new, budget units out that might fit your requirements and they are part of the Gibson family with Cakewalk). It is good to get other people's opinion. And read the mags. But until you get a budget (esp. top line) it is hard to make recommendations. Just remember that every extra dollar you spend on an interface will end up costing more than that to take advantage of it. Better converters need a better room, mic and monitors to use them to their best advantage. And better converters don't necessarily mean a better end product until you learn how to use them. And even then, likely hood of your audience hearing the difference is small. So buy the best you can afford and learn to use it. @
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
|
Astrumur
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8
- Joined: 2014/12/30 14:34:08
- Location: Round Lake, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Recording Interfaces
2014/12/31 11:39:10
(permalink)
AT-Good advice.....My final product is for albums, so the quality has to be there. I'm working on my 3rd album now. The first 2 were recorded and mixed on the Roland and they sound great. As BlixYZ was saying, a lot more goes into a recording besides various gear. I used good mics, I used Blue Tube preamps to warm the tone, I didn't overdrive the inputs (like you used to be able to do with analog...hehe), and the song material and the musicians were solid. I can't imagine that the difference in the signal is all that different from the cheaper interfaces to the expensive ones. Besides, if there are differences, can a human ear hear it? Compatibility, ease of use and additional features seem to be the important distinguishing differences. I'm currently leaning towards the Tascam....same parent company as Sonar, I've had lots of Tascam products over the years and they seem solid, and they work with USB 2 or 3. Still, I'm going to look at them all very closely before I decide. Thanks a bunch!
|
johnnyV
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2677
- Joined: 2010/02/22 11:46:33
- Location: Here, in my chair
- Status: offline
Re: Recording Interfaces
2014/12/31 13:43:08
(permalink)
The sound quality of Tascam equipment has always been excellent for the money in the 35 years I've been using their gear. I like brands that have staying power like Tascam and Yamaha. All that gear still keeps going just like the energizer bunny. Tascam had issues with using 3rd party ASIO divers and are now reported to be writing their own in house now. Focusrite has been the golden boy interface for the last year or so, I think with improved drivers Tascam will give Focusrite a run for the money now. Did you check all suppliers for the Tascam? I just used that link so you'd get an idea.
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
|
Astrumur
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8
- Joined: 2014/12/30 14:34:08
- Location: Round Lake, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Recording Interfaces
2014/12/31 14:07:57
(permalink)
johnny V, agree....i was just reminiscing about some of their gear i've owned over the years.... and even that m-50 board i used for so long....their preamps had a bad rap, but i always loved that board....i gave it to my little brother years ago when i went digital, and it's still working great...i still have one of their 2 track reel-to-reel machines....the drive needs repair, but i used to run the **** out of that thing....i'll have it fixed.... i still use my tascam cd-rw5000...it's a high quality cd recorder.....i used to take that to gigs and just plug a couple ksm-137's in and i'd get great recordings of the band....good for mixdowns too, even though obsolete... astrumur
|
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2567
- Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
- Location: West Midlands, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Recording Interfaces
2015/01/02 21:19:10
(permalink)
Astrumur. I can't imagine that the difference in the signal is all that different from the cheaper interfaces to the expensive ones.
The difference isn't simply in the analogue/digital convertors (in fact many interfaces use the same chips) but in their mic and line pre-amps and the circuitry that surrounds them. Higher end interfaces generally have a much lower noise floor than cheaper ones, though like anything else you do get diminishing returns above a certain price point. If you're recording and mixing a lot of tracks then 6dB |(or even 3dB) less noise per track can make quite a lot of difference to the end result. The other advantage tends to be better drivers, with implications for latency, and better (or more feature-equipped) firmware, software mixers/control applications and, often, manufacturer support. Whatever, any decent audio interface with solid ASIO drivers will outdo a PC's built-in sound with ease and turn in workable results. I used a Cakewalk UA-101 for quite a while and it was fine apart from I badly needed more than 8 inputs, wanted lower latency, and eventually its USB socket started acting up. The RME does sound different, but not different enough to render my older mixes useless. There actually aren't many interfaces with 16 or more inputs (I guess most people, especially at the consumer end of the market, mostly use software synths and just don't need them), hence the use of ADAT to digitally connect additional units to increase the input/output count. ADAT's like MIDI or the C programming language - it's been around for ages, when invented did its job so well it became the "industry standard" and still does it so well it has never been rendered obselete. As for RAM, my DAW PC does other stuff besides audio, particularly graphics and once in a while video. You could probably do fine with 8GB in a 64bit system unless you use sample libraries a lot in which case being able to load them into RAM rather than having them streamed from the disk is useful, I'm told. Mind you, RAM is pretty cheap these days and more is generally better as it reduces the chances of Windows having a swapping fit at a crucial moment.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
|
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2567
- Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
- Location: West Midlands, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Recording Interfaces
2015/01/02 21:19:11
(permalink)
Astrumur. I can't imagine that the difference in the signal is all that different from the cheaper interfaces to the expensive ones.
The difference isn't simply in the analogue/digital convertors (in fact many interfaces use the same chips) but in their mic and line pre-amps and the circuitry that surrounds them. Higher end interfaces generally have a much lower noise floor than cheaper ones, though like anything else you do get diminishing returns above a certain price point. If you're recording and mixing a lot of tracks then 6dB |(or even 3dB) less noise per track can make quite a lot of difference to the end result. The other advantage tends to be better drivers, with implications for latency, and better (or more feature-equipped) firmware, software mixers/control applications and, often, manufacturer support. Whatever, any decent audio interface with solid ASIO drivers will outdo a PC's built-in sound with ease and turn in workable results. I used a Cakewalk UA-101 for quite a while and it was fine apart from I badly needed more than 8 inputs, wanted lower latency, and eventually its USB socket started acting up. The RME does sound different, but not different enough to render my older mixes useless. There actually aren't many interfaces with 16 or more inputs (I guess most people, especially at the consumer end of the market, mostly use software synths and just don't need them), hence the use of ADAT to digitally connect additional units to increase the input/output count. ADAT's like MIDI or the C programming language - it's been around for ages, when invented did its job so well it became the "industry standard" and still does it so well it has never been rendered obselete. As for RAM, my DAW PC does other stuff besides audio, particularly graphics and once in a while video. You could probably do fine with 8GB in a 64bit system unless you use sample libraries a lot in which case being able to load them into RAM rather than having them streamed from the disk is useful, I'm told. Mind you, RAM is pretty cheap these days and more is generally better as it reduces the chances of Windows having a swapping fit at a crucial moment.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
|