Recording Sax

Nice stuff.

In the past I have made good use of a RE20 as a microphone and always try to keep it a couple feet away from the player so the low tones have a chance to coalesce.

best regards,
mike

Yes.  I use and LDC to record my sax.  I'll start with the mic perfectly verticle (Diaphram pointed directly at the instrument) then tip the mic downward toward the bell.
 
Mike has a good point about distance.  Unfortunately, my studio is too small and going a greater distance from the instrument is not ideal for my particular setup.

This is important:

I’m playing on a cheaply made Tenor and play on a Selmer Brillhart metal mouthpiece.

It could be one of those situations where no matter what you do you will simply never get a good sax sound. An expensive fabulous sounding instrument will get a good sound. One option is to try a microphone which is a great match to the sax sound. ie a mike that is warmer and got a bit more bottom. You may be able to extract a better sound that way.

Its back to the old situation of getting the source right. The rest will take care of itself.

I am lucky enough to play Sonor drums. They are so incredible that no matter what mike you use and no matter where you put it or them the drum sound is just fabulous. They were very expensive even back in 1980.

But if your budget does not allow this then its back to mike placement and mike choice and position but that thin high register may always be there.

Maybe the metal mouthpiece has something to do with it. I remember when studying my Jazz degree many years ago our sax teacher had an expensive instrument but got this metal mouthpiece hand made for him in the US. His sound completely changed after and for the worse. I think he sorted it out in the end. My wife also plays violin and viola and recently she changed her tail piece over from metal to wood and it sounds like a different instrument! Such a small thing but such a big result.

A few months ago I had a impulsive idea to buy a tuba and start playing bass on it.

OOOPPPPS... I didn't know cheap Tubas cost $6k+.

I went back and hugged my P-Bass.

What's an expensive Sax cost?

I grew up with guys that played those MkVI Selmers... or they didn't play nothing. They were expensive then... what do they cost now?




On another note. Why do Sonor brand drummers always mention how much their kit costs?

I mean... really?

I encountered a drum salesman a few years ago when I was buying my utilitarian TAMA Starclassic performer kit. A kit which I take the time to tune.

He proudly told me he played a Sonor snare.

Then he told me his snare was worth $40k because it wasn't made any more.

I just smiled that smile that I smile when I have nothing else to do but smile.

Just saying.


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Rich,

I'll wager that the office cubicle is reflecting lots and lots of upper midrange back in to your mic. The material most cubicles are made of is almost too dense and certainly not flexible enough to really suck up frequencies via conversion of kinetic energy to frictional heat.

Been there tried that.


Why not pull the reflector away and give it a try to compare?

Also as I mentioned a earlier I prefer a dynamic mic for horns... it makes them sound smoother. The Re20 is a personal favorite. I have also worked with big bands where everyone got a TLM193 to spit at. I still prefer the Re20.

The famous photo's of Mr Coltrane playing into a U47 don't fully explain the that the 47 had a bit of mid range bump... but not too much... and that the recording medium had softening effect as well and so the recipe was complimentary.

Now that I own some ribbon mics I'm eager to get to work with a Sax player again... I'd love to hear how a ribbon compliments the full range somewhat hi freq grain-hyped sound of my digital I/O.

all the best,
mike


 

Yes, the big one... it's especially valued because the off axis response is so natural sounding... very important when the mic is picking up reflections.

The TLM193s I refer to is one of the $2k Neumanns that they make and sell by the dozens to big outfits. It's a utility mic... if you have the budget.. and that's why everyone gets one when it's a real life black tie outfit.

I like the re20 and making two or three horn players share it by stepping up and back as the song demands.

But I'm not saying you should go buy one until you tried cheaper solutions such as giving yourself some more room.

Here's one thing to consider... unlike a electric guitar player... a horn player really never gets to hear what their instrument sounds like to others. So it's perfectly natural that you are facing a tough challenge.

Also consider that in the history of Sax greats... each one had a distinctive tone... even though their gear was remarkably similar. I say that within the context of guys splitting hairs over who made the lacquer etc... obviously the player has a big contribution to the tone.


best,
mike


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The frequency response of that mic looks very interesting.  Most mic's usually exhibit a bump around 1K - 3K.  This one is just the opposite.  I'll definately have to try this mic out if I can find a shop with one.
 
RE:  the office partitions.  You're probably right.  I've been meaning to crack those babies open and install more fiberglass in em.  I have about eight 2" thick panels a Mechanical contractor gave me.  I need to put these to good use.  I'll try moving the panels out of the way as you suggested.  I'll have to wait about 6 weeks though.  I had a little incedent with my Teefs  if you recall.
 
Rich

Hi Rich. It reminds me of a snare situation. You say the metal mouth piece cuts through a bit more live and might have a little moe bite in the sound and I am sure that is that case.  I have 2 Sonor snares. The Sonor metal snare has got the same thing going for it live. More bite, snappier top end and louder too.

When I record though the wood snare sounds better almost when the microphone is up close. It has got subtle sound and more dynamic etc. The metal snare still has bottom end though as well as the cut and the extra bite and I imagine that is the aim of the metal mouthpiece too.

I am no expert on saxes but I think I have recorded some nice ones obviously. I have always got great results with Neuman U87's and AKG 414's. The RE20 that Mike talks about is a great horn mike too for sure. Used a lot in TV studios here in Australia in years gone by. Probably many of them still in use.

Just looking at your setup too. Maybe move a few baffles further out an create a larger space. Try miking the sax away from any surfaces. There might be some comb filtering going on you cannot be too careful. There could also be some reflections going up to the ceiling and coming back down. The sax is naturally pointing upward.  Try building an acoustic roof above where you are recording. You might find it will make a big difference.

Mike is so right about the choice of microphone on people like Coltrane. The sax sound combined with the mike response is going to give the uniform sound we want. Once you have got the recording space better, try recording the horn with every mike you have and rate their hardness on a scale from 1 to 10. 1 being the softest warmest sound and 10 being a very, bright  and brittle sound. It is a good idea to know what every mike you own is on this scale. It helps you make the right choices then for any source.

It's appropriate to think of a typical set of office dividers as being a huge diffusion system.

They reflect rather than absorb effectively... in a large suite with dozens of small cubicles they function as a system and act as a large scale diffuser.

They are not any thing like 4-8lb/cuft rock wool absorbers... the material inside them is nearly rigid and the primary characteristic of the material is that it is flame proof.

best regards,
mike