Recording a string quartet

How about M/S?

I can't speak for the actual staging... I'd consider asking the performers and composer what they had in mind.

best regards,
mike

Thanks mike, yeah M/S was one option I was considering as it will give a little more flexibility over the stereo image when it's time to mix. Trouble is, I just can't visualize how the stereo stage will sound, so feel completely lost!

The composer has no clue about production, I'll ask him though...

Hi bitflipper.  Using an x/y pair puts alot more emphasis on the quality of the room.  Maybe do that and individual mics just in case?

Rimshot

Using an x/y pair puts alot more emphasis on the quality of the room.  Maybe do that and individual mics just in case?

Good point. I'd assumed a nice room, since the string quartet isn't just background accompaniment in this case, and can therefore afford to be rich and full-sounding. 


But maybe that's presuming too much. It sounds like an unusual piece (I hope we get to hear it!) so perhaps an 18th-century vibe is not what they're going for. That was Steve's point above - you can't have too many options or too few presumptions!


However, the original question was about panning and width, and I still maintain that recording wide and using Channel Tools to position and/or narrow covers all bases.

Thanks for the responses everyone. As much as I don't want to, I think I'll go overkill and set up an M/S pair, X/Y, ORTF, and spot mics. Yuk! But as has been mentioned, better safe than sorry! And as I said in the OP, I'll be recording in the perfect hall for this, so definitely will want to capture the room. 

Jeff I will definitely allow time for experimenting with seating arrangements - it may just be that the traditional setup won't work so well in this song. 

Keep any other ideas coming, and I'll definitely post samples when it's done - the date will probably be next week some time...

Thanks Jeff, I didn't say the traditional setup won't work, I'm just aware that it may work better within the context of this song to have the violins flanking as you suggested - just reminding myself to think broad and not get too stuck inside my classical background!

I would listen to Jeff and make sure the players are comfortable. That is paramount. Then, and only then, are you going to get the performance everyone will be proud of.

When I recorded a quartet here, I used an XY to capture the room, and set up mics near each of the performers; who chose to sit in the traditional manner.

Here is a video of the session.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...eature=player_embedded

I have zero experience in this area in particular, but a few additional things to consider..

If you have enough spot mics to get everything, do it. If you don't, make sure you know what particular instruments are of importance so you can capture their melody with the spot mics. If a section has a very strong violin presence, maybe choose the better two violinists and spot mic those guys. Cello and double bass may not require spot mics so much. You get the idea. Find out what's of particular importance and get it.
Also maybe consider a couple of room mics as well. Something right back at the end of the hall. Always handy to have a really wet room sound to use.

I'd also probably not worry about that many stereo mic setups. Maybe just M/S and X/Y. I'm sure that would be plenty. Personally, I prefer X/Y. It has true stereo, with the left and right being different. M/S just sounds like pseudo stereo to me and although it's fun, I don't find it too practical. Put more time into spot mics and getting a zoom mic or two set up. Maybe even a REALLY spaced pair, like two back left and right corners for the room. Could be interesting and hopefully be far enough apart and complex that comb filtering would go unnoticed. It's a room mic anyway so not so important. That could create a nice strong stereo spread of ambience. Then use spot mics to further bring out a wide stereo feel. Infact, having a lot of violins miced could great a great stereo technique if you're panning say 3 players to the left, and 3 to the right, giving plenty of room in the middle.

Just some thoughts!

The sound of a string quartet is something combined from 4 people. You need to forget micing 4 things or the spot mic concept. What are you going to do with the spot mics anyway. Matt is not quite right on this. The string players themselves will do all the balancing, the total sound that will come out will be great. The less mics you use in fact the better. It is a bit like a choir.

Nothing pseudo about an M/S setup at all. It is as true stereo as you can get. You may not have done it right Matt. It is better in fact because the M mic is pointing right at two of the players and the S mic is also pointing at the other two. Even a Blumlein setup would sound excellent.

Rimshot, that video was posted for illustrative purposes only. You may not hear any stereo separation because the sound was recorded with my camera phone!

LOL!

If you want to hear the track, you can click the banner in my signature and go to our website; listen to UNDONE. All of the tracks on this site were recorded by me by the same quartet:

http://www.oreadstrings.c...ad_Strings/Listen.html

Yeah, but a good recording is a good recording Steve. Just capture it well, and then you can decide where to put it later on. You can't go wrong with a good old-fashioned XY or M/S micing treatment.

I think you can get over technical about it. It does not matter so much what the arrangement is, there are just some good old fashioned ways of recording a great string quartet sound. If the composition is good and the string arrangements are good and the playing is excellent, it will fit perfectly and sound great.  In any musical situation. It also does not hurt to experiment either during recording.

I have done some straight X/Y setups for this situation and they sounded good too. Not so great with AB spaced pair though. Things can collapse a bit in mono or narrow width. But with M/S I found there was a nice sense of depth. Also being able to alter the stereo spread after is really great and useful. If the M Mic is in omni and you really reduce the S signal in the decoding, you are left with a very strong mono signal. (String quartet is still in perfect balance) It's also really great to lower the M level and push the S level during decoding in a mixdown that is dense. Suddenly the strings move further out and can almost move further away from the normal L R width. If you now start adding tiny amounts of delay to one side of this and add reverb as well, things really start to sound interesting with the strings. (imagine delaying either the M or S signal prior to decoding)

Matt I find it interesting that you mention recording acoustic guitar with a M/S setup. For that I imagine it may not work so well after all. In some ways it is a point source instrument and maybe a bit harder to get great stereo imagery happening on it. Would you want to pan an acoustic guitar hard L R. I am very happy with a mono recording at the twelfth fret with a great mic. I prefer the sound of two mono recordings panned 3 and 9 O Clock of the same part just doubled (with a different guitar) That to me is much more interesting.

I think M/S lends itself to situations where there are lots of point soucres coming in from different positions and interacting with the room reverb as well. Blumlein sounds amazing too. But the room needs to be real nice, because you are letting sound in the other side as well.

Hey vanblah the Decca Tree is very interesting too. Here is an interesting article on it. I think it might be better for larger ensembles in larger spaces. It poses some problems for small ensembles in smaller spaces as this article points out. Very interesting though.

http://www.audiomasterclass.com/?a=415

After reading that I now get a sense of what Matt was talking about now by doing a stereo recording with spot mics. At first I thought the spot mics might be random but when you think of say a co incident X/Y setup for a very strong centre image with spot mikes out on the flanks for a more spatial sound, it starts to make sense. It means you have got 4 tracks to play with too. Lot of control in post production. Your idea too Matt about spot mics on individual things relates to the sectional mics in orchestras being used to add definition here and there when needed.

Sorry james if we are confusing you with all these options.

PS, and in answer to your "Elanor Rigby having the same impact comment"....

Who knows?

They created something the day they did that, just as you are creating something the day YOU are recording something. I'm sure they weren't thinking: "well, we have to create that timeless Beatles sound." They were just hired to create a good recording, and had a great facility to use. I'm sure they were using the room they thought was best, with the microphones they had at hand that they knew had a certain response that they were after, and they hired players who they were pretty darn sure could play what they were after.

If you spend your whole recording career using others' work as benchmarks, you may drive yourself batty. It's good to have a point of reference, but at the end of the day, you have to be true to yourself - or your client's overall goal - and work FOR THE SONG AT HAND. That's how timeless classics are made.

The performers in the video I posted above did the same thing. In some cases, they wanted the playback turned way down, just for tempo purposes. Some put one ear on and one ear off. It's up to the players, really. I wouldn't worry too much about a "playback" mic.