Helpful ReplyRecording better scratch guitar tracks with an amp sim

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fooman
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2013/06/17 13:25:57 (permalink)

Recording better scratch guitar tracks with an amp sim

I am looking to simply up my game for recording scratch/ghost tracks on guitar.
I have a 1-room setup and often record the band playing along with the drummer.  But I record the guitars DI as scratch guitars, to be properly recorded later on.  I go DI because I don't want amps blasting into the drum mics.
 
As of now, I use a crappy Boss pedal that always sounds bad.  Nobody has complained, but I would like to not have to say "disregard the crappy guitar tone" when hearing playback.

I'd like to have a hardware unit for amp simulation due to latency.  Can anyone suggest some gear to look at?
I see Line 6 around a lot, but I haven't truly looked into this area in 5+ years, so I'm sure others have popped up.

Note: I can't afford an Axe-FX... haha
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spacealf
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Re: Recording better scratch guitar tracks with an amp sim 2013/06/17 13:48:56 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby fooman 2013/06/17 13:55:36
I have not tried it yet, and the amp is okay I guess.
 
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VT40Plus/
1/8" headphone output simulates the acoustic and spatial character of a full speaker cabinet


In fact I am going to try it today after getting a cord that separates the stereo headphone (if I am correct on that - stereo headphone jack) into left and right channel to use for recording. If not I have used an electronic effects box (like the Boss I guess) and usually have used that. Well, always can try it out and see what happens.
 
Vox has higher and lower wattage output of those amps also there.
http://www.sweetwater.com/c625--Guitar_Combo_Amps/popular/params=eyJkaW1lbnNpb24iOnsiQnJhbmQiOlsiNDI5NDk2NjM3MyJdfX0
 
The amp will make noise in some settings but that can be controlled to a certain extent but then playing live it would not be that bad anymore anyway and full up in some settings that I use it actually is nothing at all. Someone reported that out of the headphone jack it was quieter to record with than anything else he had used. I do not know, but today I find out.
 
P.S. Got it all hooked up (while trying to pull my head off with headphone cords and tripping over cords) and it works great. All the effects, all the amp sounds, all the reverb, all the compression setting or other settings and everything comes out of the headphone jack on the amp (into my channel strips not needed really) and goes into the audio/interface into the DAW to record. Yes!
 
Have to listen with headphones though or I guess a monitor system from the computer instead of directly out of the amp like normal. No mics needed.
 
Try one out I guess to say, see what you think.

 
There can be noise in there depending on where guitar is positioned and all of that just like a real amp (out of the headphones). So there can be noise in it a little somewhat, well, just like a real amp playing live.
 
Another EDIT: I think I will get it all down now.
If you want USB recording then you will have to look at another amp that may do similar things. In the past, only direct out (without anything else with the signal including cabinet or reverb or anything just the signal) was the only way. I do not know if USB will include the amp sound like the cabinet and such as with the VOX but the VOX only has the headphone jack out to do that with.
Other amps can be read in the reviews at least at Sweetwater and other on-line or off-line retailers.
 
 
 
post edited by spacealf - 2013/06/17 16:47:38

 
 
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batsbrew
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Re: Recording better scratch guitar tracks with an amp sim 2013/06/18 14:55:43 (permalink)
i use a Palmer PDI-09 unit, to capture the speaker output of my mesa tube amp, and send a line level directly to a sound card.
 
now, i can turn the boogie down in the room using the master volume, which works brilliantly on the boogie....
 
or, i can use a Weber Mass Lite attenuator, to allow for driving the output of the boogie hard, but turn down the volume as low as loud whisper, in the room, out of the speaker cabinets, and the Palmer is still in line, not doing anything but capturing the yummy goodness of wattage and melting glass.
 
these are not for demos or scratch tracks, these are the final tracks i use in my recordings.
 
added benefit:
 
live work.
 
chuck that microphone away, i'll never use a mic for live work ever again.
 
 
another added benefit:
you can always crank the amp and mic it, while using the palmer  at the same time for direct in, and mix those two tones together.
 

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Guitarhacker
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Re: Recording better scratch guitar tracks with an amp sim 2013/06/18 20:26:23 (permalink)
I use a Line 6 Pod 2 which I picked up used on Ebay for $150. It's hardware based so ZERO latency.... it has many models of amps and complete control of tone and reverb as well as FX built in.... I use it on every electric guitar part on all my music.
 
I have a Mesa Studio 22 and keep swearing I'm gonna start miking it..... but that POD 2 is such a good sounding tool and so easy to use.....
 
Have a listen to some of my tunes to hear it. Electric guitar is done on the POD.
 
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Oil On the Water>  clean  http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=9315026
 
Emerald Eyes> smoking  & clean  http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=9414184
 
 
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2013/06/18 20:31:20

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#4
spacealf
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Re: Recording better scratch guitar tracks with an amp sim 2013/06/26 21:56:12 (permalink)
Thanks for marking my reply as helpful, although I am simple that way and well it is not really needed, but Thanks!
 
I use the Vox little amp I bought at a jam session. It still depends on the place you are playing in, that place is bassy even though the owner has bass traps and all of that stuff. But guitar players seem to up the volume (I actually play more keyboards like synths than guitar - played rhythm) and up the treble and middle on the vox amp I have, even with the ten inch speaker and not a 12" speaker for that place. Just made some settings to store to recall when the jam takes place tomorrow, if I show up or bring anything. Other people show up so it is just the cheap beer drafts I go mostly for anyway on those Thursday nights. Never know who will show up, had a washboard player (metal type) in a lady that played one night (she was right there on the beat). Different. Nice looking also. ??
 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VTX150NE/


This vox amp is the only one with the USB (Vox USB ??) which also controls I think another foot switch that handles everything (unlike all the other amps that only change the presets 8 channels a player has that can be set by the player for different sounds and stored. Since they go more for Blues and Jazz than R&R the small vox I bought sounds okay there. Not a Fender for sure, but the 100watt Frontman they have in the place seems to get turned up in volume sometimes I think too much and to me they really don't sound all that great either, just a 12" speaker in it or two whatever. Others bring in Marshall small amps ( I mean 15 watt full up will handle the place if added foot switches are used but in reality the 60 watt vox is just enough even when they turn up louder (and drive people out I guess). Whatever? But all the time their amp has to be turned up to get a sound they consider (quite bad sound too some of the players showing up to play guitar) to be right. The Vox can be soft or loud and sound relatively the same, might need a little changing from soft to loud volume, but the darn thing does what they say it does.
 
If I was playing I rather have that top professional amp model more I guess, but with the $350 @ footswitch I think in the USB and whatever else the USB does (also has headphones out) at the price for both, then that is more expense and more amp than I will ever need.
 
Cheap amps are what they are, mostly adequate to a certain degree but that is all. But playing over $1000 for an amp and a foot switch just does not seem to be quite right either anymore, and the only other amp I would consider would be an Egnater I guess. ???
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VTX150NE/
a monster amp to say the least perhaps though somewhat better.
 
Actually I don't care what anyone gets for an amp, still may try out the Fender Mustang III whatever, but may still get the bigger Vox but not the top one, just the 12" speaker 120watt one. Same as the amp I bought, just more loudness.
I really don't play out though just a jam whenever who is willing to show up I guess like I do sometimes.

Just can not afford some of the prices they want anymore for some of the amps, although the controls on mine need to be moved only slightly (very very tiny little amount) on some stuff like the effects depth knob, and reverb is a lot also on the amp, but three different kinds and yes they are different, as well as some of the other effects, depends I guess.
post edited by spacealf - 2013/06/26 23:06:02

 
 
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Recording better scratch guitar tracks with an amp sim 2013/06/27 10:47:16 (permalink)
fooman
 
I'd like to have a hardware unit for amp simulation due to latency.  Can anyone suggest some gear to look at?
I see Line 6 around a lot, but I haven't truly looked into this area in 5+ years, so I'm sure others have popped up.

Note: I can't afford an Axe-FX... haha




Check out the Zoom G5.  Not expensive... and sounds better IMO than the POD HD500.
Zoom B3 is also excellent for Bass (Bassman model is excellent)
Don't be put off by the low cost.  Both Zoom units offer some of the best (if not the best) amp-models that I've heard.  
 
BTW, The G5 also has a real tube driver built in... (totally separate from the model section)
post edited by Jim Roseberry - 2013/06/27 10:48:39

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Goddard
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Re: Recording better scratch guitar tracks with an amp sim 2013/06/28 13:27:17 (permalink)
A lot of possibilities.
 
Having tried and used lots of fx units for recording over the years, most recently I've been using a couple of "recording interfaces" (Roland V-Studio 20 and Zoom G2.1Nu) which connect to a PC via USB and have onboard DSP for low/no-latency fx and amp modeling. And I also play through an iPad running Amplitude, Garageband and some other amp sim apps without latency issues.
 
As well, I've tried a bunch of SansAmp models over the years.
 
But the best "amp sim" (or "mini amp" or "headphone amp") I've found is the Palmer Pocket Amp, which can also work very nicely as a DI box:
 
http://www.palmer-germany...-Pocket-Amp-PEPAMP.htm
 
http://www.guitarworld.co.review-palmer-pocket-amp
 
http://www.soundonsound.c...s/palmer-pocketAmp.htm
 
My only gripe with the Palmer is that on mine the push switch seems flimsy and is a bit touchy, as was also noted by the SOS reviewer, although from the photo in the more recent GW review it looks like Palmer may be fitting a standard "stomp" switch now.
 
Of course, an amp with a DI or line out (or fx send) can also be useful, as can an iso-booth for the amp...
post edited by Goddard - 2013/06/28 13:51:41
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