Recording drum techniques

you can use the kick/snare/toms in the overhead mics to build the "main" sound of your kit and then reinforce that sound with close micing to get the punch you want. i tend to look at overhead mics as "whole drum set" mics instead of just cymbal mics.
it all depends on what sound you want and also what kind of music. i have made some pretty cool recordings for blues & jazz with just 2 overhead mics and an extra mic for the kick drum. very open and natural sounding but for a rock & roll sound you are going to probably want a lot more "close-mic'd" drum sounds in there.
i hate gating drum mics. you can experiment with placement of the mics to try to alleviate whatever bleed is causing the problem. usually in my experience it is a hi hat into snare bleed or vice/versa, but changing the mic placement can do wonders for that. just get your head down next to the mic and look out over the element to "see" what your mic is going to hear.

if you are losing the "meat" of the snare, check the polarity ( people call it phasing ) of the mics. try inverting the snare mic with the phase button ( little zero with slash through it ) or both overheads. also i find it easier to start with the overheads, get them as close as you can to what you want, THEN add kick, snare, etc... using each spot mic/close mic to reinforce the overall sound. i find that a good sounding drum kit recorded and mixed this way always sounds as good as it does when standing in front of it. sometimes a touch of compression or the "cakewalk tape bus" effect plugin on the overheads can do wonders. i would also use low cut filters on all of the mics except the kick and maybe floor tom set around 75 or so ( experimentation there of course )

Thanks dave and clyde the great thing about my sit. is that I am the drummer but I will give your ideals a try ecsp with the phaseing and the multiband limiter. The only thing is I like such different things on my snare than on my cymbals. The other thing I've noticed if anyone has suggestions is when I mix the bass drum I get it sounding really big and good in my studio headphones but when I play it on a regular stereo or walkman headphones it loses all the size and sound real thin. Any suggestion on how to monitor it so it has a better balance in the studio monitors so that it still sounds big on a regular stereo

Man thanks that is an awesome way to look at it and will really help so pretty much use the close micing to insintuate your drum set sound just add to it not to give your complete sound

Thanks

ORIGINAL: RIZZY0

hey thanks for the advice. I'm kind of a rocker I like the real hi end shimmer for cymbals with a real meaty bassy snare as well with the bass drum. My dilema (if you can call it that) is that when I eq the snare I can get that fat sound with some eq and reverb when I go to eq the cymbals I eq them a little in the hi frequencys to give them the real nice shimmering sound but the snare thats mixed in with the cymbals adds a bit of the highs to the over all sound of the snare and I lose a little meat. I do a little more eqing to get a better balance of what I want. I've been pulling the overheads a little further away from center and raising them a little higher but that doesn't do as much as I'd hoped

RIZZYO,

Once you've gained a comprehensive understanding of using various EQ tools, you'll be more able to find the sound you're looking for...

You need to learn the basics of low-pass and high-pass filters, shelving, and parametric EQ...As you get more familiar with those concepts you'll be able to tailor your drum sound to your liking once it's "sitting in the mix"...BTW, knowledge of the above mentioned EQ techniques also applies to getting the rest of your tracks to "sit" properly...As you get more familiar with all of the capabilities EQ has to offer, you'll probably find yourself doing more "cutting" than "boosting" on many of your tracks...

It's a lot to learn, but you'll REALLY be glad you did!

ORIGINAL: RIZZY0

Hi all just wanted to get some advice on how I can limit the amount of snare bass and toms getting in the overhead mics or any general mic isolation tecniques. Any other tips for recording drums would also be appreciated. I'm recording into sonar 5 se. I'm currently building my drum mic collection.

I think the best solutions to isolation Problems are..... # 1. Don't hit the drums hard. #2. If you can't help yourself AND you hit the drums hard.... then only hit one at a time.

I just gate 'em and be done. I've never had any complaints and never had to call the drummers back in.

OTOH, my records haven't sold

ORIGINAL: bso

I think the best solutions to isolation Problems are..... # 1. Don't hit the drums hard. #2. If you can't help yourself AND you hit the drums hard.... then only hit one at a time.

ha!ha!ha!...are you #$%@ing kidding me! obviously missed he is playing rock, huh? I play my kit very hard alot, and so do most rockers, just watch Daney Carey from Tool and Pigmy Love Circus play sometime. Playing drums hard is how alot of that rock sound is formed on drums, ask any rock drummer.

Anyways, if your a Bonham(Zeppelin) fan at all, Future Music mag. Oct. 2005 has an awesome artical talking about all kinds of ways his set was recorded. One album was recorded with 3 mics, one in front , one behind him and one overhead. Once he recorded his drums in a mansion at the bottom of a spiral staircase in a gigantic foyer, recording his drums with only overheads 10' above his kit. Remember to experiment as much as possible, at the same time definetly try all the advise these guys are offering, except not hitting your drums hard.

I once recorded a drum kit in the bathroom of a studio that was housed in an old municipal fire station (complete with the original pole that was used to slide from the 2nd story down to the first floor)...The bathroom was huge (four "stalls" plus four "urinals") with a high ceiling--I'm guessing the dimensions were approximately 14'W x 18'D x 12'H...

We set up the kit so that the drummer's throne was backed up to the partition of the first stall (the "rear"--no pun intended--of the room)...I set up an overhead (U87 or TLM 170--I don't recall for sure) inside the first stall extending over the partition at a point approximately 6' directly over the drummer's head with the capsule positioned at an angle of approximately 10-15° toward the center of the kit...I set up another mic (I'm pretty sure this one was a U47) directly in front of the kit about 18" off the floor and 5' or 6' away from the front rim of the kick...Then I set up a pair of Coles 4038's (that much I do recall because I have an undying love for them ) facing the front wall, about 5' from the wall and 8' apart, at a height of about 8' with the capsules aimed slightly toward the respective corners of the walls...

Anyway, the sound was enormous and very "Bonham-esque" for the song we were working on...Unfortunately, the studio was shut down (that's a REALLY long story) not long after that session and I never had the chance to do a final mix on it...I'm also sad to report that I've never found a bathroom that sounded that good since then...

One thing I've learned, as the years have gone by, is that recording drums presents a challenge at times but a little imagination and willingness to "break the rules" can result in some amazing stuff!