Beagle
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Recording flute and clarinet
I've never recorded flute or clarinet before, but I will be doing that tomorrow. I don't think I'll have a problem finding a good sweet spot, my question is more about equipment. I have a Shure KSM-27 that I will be using for the mic (my only other options are lower quality condensors and dynamics). My choices for preamps are: MOTU Ultralite built in preamps. they're not bad - FET based, pretty clean, low noise. TPS II - tube based starved plate design with dialable features and limiting. I use this pre on my vocals a lot, it's not a bad pre for that. True Systems P-solo - ultra clean FET. Mackie Mixer pres I'm leaning toward the P-solo as I think the TPSII would probably add too much distortion where I think I'm going to want a clean signal for the woodwinds. thoughts?
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/15 16:35:07
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The trick with flute is to make sure you don't get any wind rushing on the mic. I usually place the mic at just above the musician's fore head so that the wind that blow by the mouth piece doesn't get near it. The Clarinet is simple... just stick it down near the bell and find your sweet spot.
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Beagle
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/15 16:38:13
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thanks Mike - I guess I wouldn't have thought of putting the mic near the flutist's forehead.
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/15 18:40:35
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I have recorded both of these instruments extensively. The flute is best captured up top where the musician is blowing near the hole and as Mike points out just position that mic so that any wind rushing noise is avoided. It is quite loud there too so the gain wont need to be high. The sound of the clarinet does not emanate from the bell only, it comes from all the way down the instrument through the holes etc on the body. So you have to get a little back from it and I found it works quite well just pointing the mic (from out front) at the the lower half of the instrument about a foot or 18" away. Use the mic with the best bass response also to record the clarinet as it is a lowish sounding instrument. (Large diaphragm condenser works well) You can get away with recording a sax from the bell only but not so with the clarinet. If you mic the bell only some notes wont be heard there! If you have to record them both at the same time just put them opposite each other and set the mics so the rear of one mic is pointing at the other instrument to minimise spill. You are going to get some spill if they are recorded together and then it is up to the performance to be good so no overdubs will need to be done. If they are also playing together another option is to set them both up and just do a stereo recording of both of them in a nice room.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2012/09/15 18:48:30
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/15 19:24:55
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I agree Jeff. I generally work at mid distances (18"+) as well so I just took for granted that someone searching for a sweet spot would end up there because that's where it is... down near the bell... but not "on" the bell. :-) I do the same with sax (as opposed to those on the bell clip on mics some folks use)... I keep the mic back enough for the full range of tonality to develop. all the best, mike
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The Band19
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/15 22:38:04
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" I've never recorded flute or clarinet before, but I will be doing that tomorrow."
That's it, turn in your man card at the front desk...
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Beagle
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/16 07:52:38
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thanks Jeff and Mike. would a small diameter condensor be better for the flute?
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/16 08:00:11
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I imagine it depends on the room and the tone that the player gets. I've used both sdc and ldc on flutes. In general, if the musician (I can't spell flautist with confidence) has a nice full and low tone and the room is not adversarial then I'll try the LDC. If the tone is peaky and present in the upper mids, and or if the room is accentuating that sort of issue I'll try the sdc or maybe even a ribbon mic. The clarinet is much more predictable... while the flute can be wildly different from song to song and player to player etc. Have fun! best regards, mike
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Beagle
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/16 10:33:27
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bapu
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/16 14:30:42
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{NagBap} This must mean that you're done with the SB vocals? {/NagBap}
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/16 16:35:44
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Most of the time I have recorded flute I have used a LDC even though in that area of mic placement there is not a lot of room. I have used an AKG 451 as well. In both these cases I was always happy with the bottom end of the flute in the mix process. A SDC may make it sound a tiny bit thin. Depends on what flutes they play too. A lot of the time the player worked with played the standard flute size but also played right up to large wooden flutes with low end. So the LDC came into its own. A ribbon mike would sound good I would imagine. A LDC does work well because as we know it is good to match the mic to the sound you are recording. If a flute had a higher more present sound that was bright, I would tend to choose a microphone that is warmer and smoother sounding. That way the combination of mic and sound will yield a much better recorded sound needing less processing later. Some flute players may move around a bit so you might have to be prepared for that and it is one of those things that can go off axis quite quickly. If they are sight reading then they tend to stay put much more. Some flute players have microphones attached to the instrument and it is always good to capture that signal at the same time too. Watch out for the high notes as well. They can change their sound radically and become super bright. Also level can go up large amounts too. If you are worried, set up a compressor set for limiting with a very high threshold as a guard. But you should be able to set the gain in such a way you can capture their full playing dynamic range without clipping.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Beagle
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/16 19:48:30
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Thanks Jeff. they had to reschedule, so I didn't get the chance to record them today, maybe in couple of weeks. I do plan to route it through my dbx 160A with some mild settings to tame the peaks. good advice about watching them move around and such. I know about the mics that will attach to the flute/clarinet, etc, but don't have one and don't have the budget for that right now. thanks again everyone. 'cept bapu. no, I don't have the vox done yet...those aren't even scheduled until Thanksgiving, roight??
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rumleymusic
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/19 14:30:51
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Is this classical or pop music? If the former you need to be careful not to get in too close. Most setups will use a stereo pair (in a good sounding space), and if needed, a spot mic no closer than 3 feet from the musician. Any closer than that and you will start to pickup breathing and key sounds that will make the musicians cringe. I was hired by one ensemble because their previous engineer screwed up by miking way too close. Examples: Flute, Clarinet, Viola, Piano (DPA Omni pair at 60cm with piano spot) http://www.instantencore.com/work/work.aspx?work=5002837 Flute, Guitar, Percussion (Sennheiser MKH8040 ORTF + DPA4061 spots on flute and guitar) http://www.instantencore.com/work/work.aspx?work=5066017
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Beagle
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/19 14:42:35
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Hi Daniel uhm...it's "not classical" (but it's not "pop" either! ) I tried to listen to your examples, but I can't hear well enough from work (very noisey environment). I'll listen tonight when I get home. thanks for the tips!
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/19 14:45:18
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That sounds, to me, absolutely fantastic. I would point out though that 60cm = 23.62 inches. edit to add, I am reevaluating my first response and realizing that you probably meant a spaced pair 60cm apart from each other. :-) The space sounds sweet and the balance is super, and the players have a great touch. Wow! best regards, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2012/09/19 14:48:22
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/19 16:50:39
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Daniel brings up an interesting point. The close flute recordings I did were in a style of music that was very percussive and rhythmical and in fact the breathing and all the other associated sounds really fit into the genre. A distant flute recording would not have been anywhere near as good in this situation so it does bring up the relationship of music genre and recording techniques. I have also recorded a clarinet quartet and the best way was definitely in a lovely sounding room and I was quite some distance away. We did some tests to find the optimum ratio of direct to room sound. The first half of the room was a little deader which sounded great for them but the room also sounded nice too. If in doubt you can record them individually up close and the as a duo a little further away at the same time. Give yourself more options. The music that Daniel has first linked to yes does sound nice but somehow I just get a feeling that that music could also have been recorded up a little closer and then you would start hearing more detail in the playing and a little less of the room sound. That recording does sound very much like how it would sound in a concert situation and that too is a lovely environment to hear something in. But it could also have another level of detail and transients info added with a little little less room too. The second link with the percussion is closer to what I mean and this is sounding like it is because of the spot mikes too. But I could take it a slight closer detailed sound and a little less room sound as well. It all comes down to taste and how we each prefer to record something. We have had distant micing and that sound for years but now with great mikes and pres and A to D converters and such getting up close can also be an incredible recording experience too. I believe you can change the up close sound too with careful and subtle use of EQ plus add that to the very nice convolution reverbs there are around now and it is not hard to create the further away approach using the up close sounds. But ideally record the further away approach at the same time as the close up approach if you are going to do it. A nice MS setup could be the go there or spaced pair also sounds like a nice stereo approach too. Keep a record of the difference in distance between the up close and further away mics.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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rumleymusic
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Re:Recording flute and clarinet
2012/09/19 19:18:18
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Oh! yeah. The AB pair was probably 5-6 feet in front of the players, about 9 feet up. I would have liked to use spots on this one as well, but if I remember correctly, my wife borrowed my car that day that had all my cables, stands and most of my mic's in it. I was working with limited resources. ;) If you get in close you will get more noise from the instrument, but not necessarily more "desirable" detail, and you will start to favor certain parts of the instrument rather than picking up the whole thing. Again, it all depends on the type of music you are trying to record.
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