Helpful ReplyRecording more than the microphone

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Backstrom
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2014/08/01 17:32:31 (permalink)

Recording more than the microphone

Hi!
When I listen to my microphone recordings I can always hear the music silently in the background.
So I tried using hearing protections with 3,5mm audioinput (I dont know the right word in english, but here is a picture ).
But still I could hear the music silently in the background.
 
So I disconnected the microphone while I was recording and the music was still in the recording even without the mic on.
Is there an option somewhere which can prevent this?
 
The problem isnt only in Sonar and "record what you hear" is not activated.
Im using Creative x-Fi soundcard, win7, Sonar X3
 
Sorry for my bad english, Im really tired and Swedish at the moment... ;)
#1
slartabartfast
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/02 12:17:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Backstrom 2014/08/03 01:30:51
Sorry I am not clear on what the situation you are trying to describe actually is. Are you saying there is some music that is not the music you are trying to record 1. being recorded or 2. being played back via monitoring while you are recording through  a. the speakers attached to your sound card or b. headphones? 
If so that suggests an analogue signal leak of some sort from a radio broadcast, or other source that is being picked up in your audio system somewhere. Alternatively, it could be an actual sound in your recording room that is masked or too quiet for you to hear but which you are amplifying during the recording process to a level that you can hear. 
 
Or are you saying that you are hearing the music that you are trying to record echoed over again in the recording?
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rcrees
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/02 12:41:52 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Backstrom 2014/08/03 01:30:55
and, just to be clear... you are not picking up the sound from your headphones when laying down the vocal, right? Certainly sounds like that...


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bitflipper
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/02 13:21:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Backstrom 2014/08/03 01:31:01
Im really tired and Swedish at the moment... ;)

 
Swedish for the moment? What will you be after you've had a nap? Norwegian? 
 
Sounds like crosstalk within the audio interface. Soundblasters will do that. Nothing you can do about it, though, aside from upgrading your sound card.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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mettelus
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/02 13:39:50 (permalink)
+1 to bitflipper on both counts :D

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Backstrom
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/03 01:49:44 (permalink)
Thanks for the replies!
 
Im still Swedish this morning, thank the gods for that! 
 
If I disconnect the microphone and press record, then Sonar will record the music as if the mic was hearing my music from my headphones. So it´s probably sound leakage as you suggested... 
 
If I remember right I did not have this problem with windows XP.
Maybe the soundcard is old or need some other drivers?
 
Now when I record, I play the music from my phone with headphones and record the vocals in Sonar.
Then there is no leakage, but its more work this way.
 
Which sound card can you recommend? I´m no way professional or wealthy.
RME?
#6
Backstrom
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/03 01:49:24 (permalink)
- double post - 
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bitflipper
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/03 09:42:46 (permalink)
You can't go wrong with RME, but it's at the high end of the prosumer price range. When I had to replace my interface earlier this year, I did a lot of research because I could not afford the RME I'd always wanted.
 
That investigation led me to Focusrite products, which offered the best value for the features I needed. I ended up with a Saffire Pro 40 and have been pretty happy with it. That's a Firewire device, though, so if you don't have a Firewire port on your computer you'd want to look at the Scarlett series, which are identical except they're USB.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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Sanderxpander
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/03 14:01:08 (permalink)
I really think this is a setting like the "what you hear" somewhere in a screen that you/we haven't found yet. Soundblasters aren't great but there is no way that there is THAT much hardware leakage between the inputs and ouputs. While I would recommend a more professional card in general (RME is considered top notch but relatively pricey and probably more feature-rich than you need) I think in this case you should be able to get this working with a few mouse clicks.

Does the Soundblaster come with a mixer or settings app? There is also the Windows audio and playback devices menu thingy. Try and look if there is something set there that shouldn't be. If it's not too much trouble, provide screenshots of all the relevant screens. i'm sure we can figure this out!
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Backstrom
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 11:11:51 (permalink)
This is how it sounds when the microphone IS NOT connected to the computer:
 
 
 
Here is a picture with the settings from Creative console, win7 sound options and Sonars Audio Devices:

 
No "What-you-hear" selected.
Want to see some other settings? Im happy to help you help me! 
 
bitflipper
You can't go wrong with RME, but it's at the high end of the prosumer price range. When I had to replace my interface earlier this year, I did a lot of research because I could not afford the RME I'd always wanted.
 
That investigation led me to Focusrite products, which offered the best value for the features I needed. I ended up with a Saffire Pro 40 and have been pretty happy with it. That's a Firewire device, though, so if you don't have a Firewire port on your computer you'd want to look at the Scarlett series, which are identical except they're USB.

 
Focusrite and Scarlett are external sound cards. I would like a internal sound card because music isnt something I do everyday and I want a clean desk. But thanks for the advice!!
Any advice what I should look for in a sound card for music creation?
I use a 6,3mm microphone (with a 3,5mm adapter) and a USB midi-keyboard. And I use 3,5mm analog output and a digital optical output.
It should support ASIO too, right?



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mettelus
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 12:49:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Backstrom 2014/08/04 13:00:47
I sort of went down kicking and screaming before I finally gave up on internal sound cards. If doing simple tasks, the Scarlett 2i2 may be more than sufficient for you. The advantage of such devices is the pre-amps, but I do not know if internals exists with comparable pre-amps (so take that with a huge grain of salt). The device is not huge, and very portable (can easily unplug and put away when not "in use," or even use it on someone else's machine). Some others may have advice on comparable internals, but I personally like being able to control the interface via "knobs and switches."
 
I actually run internal (onboard) audio for Win7, and have my Saffire dedicated to SONAR usage.

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Sanderxpander
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 13:31:28 (permalink)
Ok to begin with you should be using the Creative ASIO driver and not ASIO4ALL. In fact I would recommend uninstalling ASIO4ALL altogether as it is known to interfere with dedicated drivers. In your Sonar devices list you can see the ASIO Line In/Mic L. That's the one you should probably be using. You will only be able to select it by unselecting all ASIO4ALL options first (including outputs, I think, you should probably use the Front L/R option).

Hope this helps!
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Backstrom
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 13:35:36 (permalink)
If I´ll ever going to buy a new sound card I think I will buy the Scarlett 2i2.
I will have to buy a new cord for my mic but thats not a huge cost.
I like that I can change the volume on the headphones with a real knob instead of clicking in win7.
I hope I can get it up and running without problems, but I can always ask you experts! 
 
Thanks!
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Beepster
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 13:41:41 (permalink)
My Scarlett 18i6 sits happily atop my computer completely out of the way. It very small for the amount of connections it has (half rack size and barely sticks out over the top edges of my vertical tower). The only time the desk gets messy because of it is when I start connecting things to it which would happen anyway with an internal card. The smaller Scarlett's (like the 2i2) are... well smaller I think but really if you are will to spend an extra $100 or so you get way more versatility with the 18i6 in a compact size. It also has dedicated level knobs for BOTH the headphone and Main outputs so in theory you could be saving a lot of desk space simply by not needing a monitor controller, headphone amp or mixer. Everything can be done straight through the teeny tiny box if you want. Very compact.
 
Works great, simple to use and sounds good too.
 
Cheers.
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Backstrom
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 13:44:12 (permalink)
Sanderxpander
Ok to begin with you should be using the Creative ASIO driver and not ASIO4ALL. In fact I would recommend uninstalling ASIO4ALL altogether as it is known to interfere with dedicated drivers. In your Sonar devices list you can see the ASIO Line In/Mic L. That's the one you should probably be using. You will only be able to select it by unselecting all ASIO4ALL options first (including outputs, I think, you should probably use the Front L/R option).

Hope this helps!



Ok, I´ve uninstalled ASO4ALL and selected the input/output you recomended. 
But It´s still leakes. I don´t think it´s Sonars fault.
It´s the same problem in Adobe Audition.
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Beepster
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 13:50:58 (permalink)
Backstrom
If I´ll ever going to buy a new sound card I think I will buy the Scarlett 2i2.
I will have to buy a new cord for my mic but thats not a huge cost.
I like that I can change the volume on the headphones with a real knob instead of clicking in win7.
I hope I can get it up and running without problems, but I can always ask you experts! 
 
Thanks!




Are you using a USB mic? If so you would need to buy a new mic for input into the Scarlett (but USB mics suck anyway). If you are using a normal mic the Scarlett series have multi in jacks on them so unless you have a REALLY weird mic/cable you'll be able to plug into it. The only thing you MIGHT need is an 1/8" to 1/4" adapter if you are using a mic cable that has a mini jack on the end. Those cost like $2.
 
Still a good, balanced XLR mic cable is a worthwhile purchase. Less noise, better signal, etc. They can be bought for $10 or so. No biggie.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 14:05:32 (permalink)
Looking at Creative's "Audio Creation Mode" panel I see you can enable "monitoring" both for playback and recording. While this shouldn't technically be an issue, you could try with both of those off, since you can monitor directly through Sonar.

By the way, you do have the latest drivers installed? A quick google showed me there may be something wrong with older drivers.
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Backstrom
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 14:06:45 (permalink)
Beepster
 
Are you using a USB mic? If so you would need to buy a new mic for input into the Scarlett (but USB mics suck anyway). If you are using a normal mic the Scarlett series have multi in jacks on them so unless you have a REALLY weird mic/cable you'll be able to plug into it. The only thing you MIGHT need is an 1/8" to 1/4" adapter if you are using a mic cable that has a mini jack on the end. Those cost like $2.
 
Still a good, balanced XLR mic cable is a worthwhile purchase. Less noise, better signal, etc. They can be bought for $10 or so. No biggie.




No, I don´t have a USB mic. It´s a real one with a XLR to 6,3 millimeter plug and then an 3,5 millimeter adapter so it fits in the soundcard. :)
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 14:08:02 (permalink)
Also, have you checked what's under the "settings" button in that Creative control panel?
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 14:13:46 (permalink)
Sanderxpander
Looking at Creative's "Audio Creation Mode" panel I see you can enable "monitoring" both for playback and recording. While this shouldn't technically be an issue, you could try with both of those off, since you can monitor directly through Sonar.

By the way, you do have the latest drivers installed? A quick google showed me there may be something wrong with older drivers.



I disabled the monitoring but that did´nt help. Sorry...
 
I checked on Creatives driver page and I got the latest drivers and I tried updating the drivers with windows device manager. Its the latest. 
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Backstrom
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 14:15:37 (permalink)
Sanderxpander
Also, have you checked what's under the "settings" button in that Creative control panel?



Nothing fun in there:
Master sampling rate: 44.1 kHz...
When headphones jack is connected: Two settings...
Enable Bit-Mached Playback...
 
Nothing more..
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 14:24:51 (permalink)
This may have been mentioned already but on the topic of cables... do you have any cables touching each other or touching any other gear, adapters, computer case, etc?
 
I'm sure this is not the problem BUT it is a good thing to check out when troubleshooting weird noises and ghost signals. I've had all sorts of phantom noises go away after ensuring cables weren't touching each other or anything else. This usually only happens when using cheap cables and gear and/or if something isn't grounded properly.
 
So just for the sake of curiosity take a look around and make sure you don't have any wires crossing each other or touching any gear.
 
 
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 16:29:30 (permalink)
Just on a hunch, go to Windows sound properties again and check the communication devices. If "what you hear" or "stereo mix" is in there, disable it.
Also, in the Soundblaster mixer app, there is an ASIO tab and an input tab. Have you tried soloing the mic in there?
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mettelus
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 16:57:56 (permalink)
A few things for you quick:
 
1) If you are seeing this also in Audition, it is definitely in the Creative software, or even Win7. Do you have any of "Enhancements" enabled in the "Playback" section of your card? (Highlight it on the playback tab, hit "properties" and check the "enhancements" tab). Win7 may also be a contributor to what you are seeing (can try disabling enhancements if any are enabled).
 
2) Are you referring to an "impedence matcher" in the comment below? If so, they are a quick way to nerf a microphone (when I first started out years ago I tried this "option" and it is not until you hear the difference between one and plugging into a pre-amp that it becomes obvious).
 
Backstrom No, I don´t have a USB mic. It´s a real one with a XLR to 6,3 millimeter plug and then an 3,5 millimeter adapter so it fits in the soundcard. :)

 
3) I do realize that people start off trying to "make do" with what they already have, and splice everything together to "work." At least you are in the forums so can hear from folks who have "been there, done that." Most music shops have a 30-day return policy, so trying a Scarlett out for yourself may be an option.
 
[The rest below may be superfluous, but is FYI, just in case you go this route]
"IF" you decide to try a Scarlett, and "IF" you want to operate both cards like I do... both devices need to be viewable in Win7, and you must explicitly assign the Creative as "default" (if it already is, assign the Scarlett, then assign back to the Creative). What this does it make Win7 leave the Scarlett alone (even if it sees the Scarlett come on/off-line). Then in X3 you can run ASIO with the Scarlett without Win7 interfering. FWIW, Focusrite has true ASIO aggregation, meaning multiple programs can use it at the same time - I often record in X3 and do noise reduction in Audition without closing either program (I know this works for playback like a charm, but never tested recording).

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sock monkey
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/04 21:14:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/08/05 09:17:11
I fought a loosing battle with a sound blaster PCI sound card for longer than I care to talk about. Not only do they have issues exactly like you are describing, but pour performance, crosstalk, jitters, out of sync tracks and a long list of problems with audio, The drivers even though the say are ASIO turned out to be exactly like asio4all which are not true blue ASIO.  
 
 Defiantly purchase an audio interface. It is the most important purchase for recording with a computer. I wouldn't waste 2 minutes trying to make a Sound Blaster work. 
     If your supper short on banana's then the Scarlett 2i2 will get you going. But look at the Scarlett 6i6 and up as for a few extra bucks you get a lot more features, most important  is the mix control software which the 2i2 and 2i4 don't come with.  There are a few other brands in that price range but Focusrite seems like one of the better companies for support and the drivers are a bit better than most in the lower priced USB interfaces.  
 
When you get the interface you should remove all traces of both asio4all and creative drivers from your system. Even after I removed my Creative card and software and installed the proper ASIO drivers, I continued to get a Creative splash screen warning. I ended up re doing the computer to get rid of it. This Monkey learned to hate the word "creative sound blaster" and so I will continue to throw pooh at it when the word is mentioned n forums...Ook. 
post edited by sock monkey - 2014/08/05 20:14:40

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#25
Backstrom
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/05 15:08:15 (permalink)
Ok, maybe it´s time for me to say good bye to Sound blaster for ever.
 
I think I´m going to order Scarlett 2i2 and use the motherboards soundcard for everyday music.
And throw away the sound blaster card!!
 
But I dont like that there is no RCA outputs in the rear because I got RCA on my speakers.
Guess I can use two ¼” TRS Jack to RCA adapters?
 
The iTrack Solo got RCA outputs.
Any thoughts about iTrack Solo instead of 2i2?
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/05 16:25:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/08/05 18:01:01
The speakers only have RCA? Well we may need to talk about monitors next... lol.
 
But the 2i2 will work well. Using some adapters to make the connection would be worth it just to know you have a good, solid interface with proper drivers that will be supported for a long time.
 
Then again I don't really trust anything iThing when it comes to making music so I (or should I say "i") may be biased.
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mettelus
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/05 18:13:03 (permalink)
I am biased to Focusrite simply because they have exceeded my expectations.
 
Another "tip" is the software interface (MixControl) can look daunting at first, but there is a really nicely done tutorial posted here (he is using a Saffire 56, so has a lot more inputs). But he talks very nicely to the "logic" and how to use it effectively (and more quickly than just reading the manual). I "believe" the Scarlett uses the same software, but not sure, so wanted to at least let you know this video exists.

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Beepster
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/05 18:33:37 (permalink)
If that's the tut I think it is it is most definitely something to watch if you want to figure out the MixControl.... which I probably should even if just for academic purposes. Maybe tomorrow afternoon now that it has been helpfully posted here.
 
Thanks, Mettulus.... and I agree. The Scarlett has definitely far exceeded my expectations by the sheer fact I only had to install it, point Sonar to it (which took like 15 minutes) and never really had to think about it again.
 
It just does what it's supposed to. Awesome.
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sock monkey
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Re: Recording more than the microphone 2014/08/05 20:19:59 (permalink)
,, there is no mix control with the 2i2 and 2i4, It starts being included when you get to the 6i6. 
 
Consumer level gear uses RCA. 
 
What sort of monitors are they? 
 
I would purchase a set of RCA to 1/4"  cables as adapters are a source of trouble sometimes. 

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Singer Songwriter, Solo Performer, Acoustic Duo and semi pro Sound Monkey.   
  
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