Beagle
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Recording other artists
sorry to drop in a serious thread in the CH...sometimes you just gotta do it! I've been recording some folks in my little bedroom studio lately, mostly one guy who is quite adept at playing "jazz-fusion" type stuff on a little yamaha keyboard. and mostly I just record the output of the keyboard that he's already recorded in the keyboard memory. sometimes he'll record another track or two along with what we've recorded out of his keyboard. (but we're about to embark on a full CD project with other artists he will be hiring for his music). but what's so funny to me as a paying customer he wants constant PRAISE of his work!!! of course, since he's paying me, so of course I think it's the best music since sliced bread! I just find it amusing that he asks me almost every song how well I like it. like that really matters! but I oblige and I've learned to tell him how great it is BEFORE he asks sometimes...keeps his wallet open that way!
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spacey
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 09:27:16
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Reece....you're not serious, are you?
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Beagle
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 09:30:09
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why, of course!
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spacey
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 09:33:21
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Well then.... You need to start hitting him with the CH 20-40% better than anybody you've recorded. :)
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Beagle
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 09:34:52
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fantastic response! why didn't I think of that???
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spacey
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 09:36:59
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You would have. He would have made you think of it!
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 09:44:45
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Reece it seems as if you are learning one of the important roles of the producer. Producers do totally different things than engineers. If you become really good at encouraging the guy you may need to hire an engineer so you can blossom as a producer. :-) best regards, mike edit spelling and grammar
post edited by mike_mccue - 2011/08/19 19:14:24
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 09:55:24
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From my observations, the other important role of the producer is to occasionally walk into the control room without listening to anything first and loudly declare, "Babe. It's just not happening. Make it more...you know. You're the greatest!" They're just helpful that way.
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Beagle
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 10:02:03
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UbiquitousBubba From my observations, the other important role of the producer is to occasionally walk into the control room without listening to anything first and loudly declare, "Babe. It's just not happening. Make it more...you know. You're the greatest!" They're just helpful that way. and..."more cowbell"? Karyn????
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 12:08:22
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keep the customers happy.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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bayoubill
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 12:16:00
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I find this thread very helpful! ...kinda like this guy needs honorable mention .... i feel his pain
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 12:26:42
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Terms like "Good" "Bad" "Makes Me Long For The Sweet Release Of Death" are all somewhat subjective (except that last one). As a producer, it's one thing to fawn all over the customer, supply the green M&Ms, and build up their ego. It's another thing entirely to produce a product that will sell. I like producers that work with artists to get them what they want. If it's merely a vanity recording, ("It's just as good as William Shatner's record!"), let their mommy tell them how good they are. If it's an artistic expression that's not necessarily commercial, "Good" and "Bad" may be less relevant. If it's a commercial venture, then the only praise they really want to hear is expressed in BouyBucks. I always liked working with producers, managers, editors, etc. who gave good constructive criticism rather than fawning false praise ("You're just a little ray of sunshine!" "I don't think Stephen Hawking could sing any better!" "Of all the people I've ever heard, you're one of them.")
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Rain
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 12:38:18
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I think we as artists and engineer often tend to overlook how crucial a producer can be - not simply in managing talent/performance in the studio, but as an artistic director. George Martin comes to mind. Of course, it's easier if you're one of the big time guys who only embarks on projects of interest. Otherwise, you'll probably have to use a few tiny white lies and/or use the good old scripts. I guess most of the folks booking studio time expect being "produced" just as much as they rely on your engineering skills.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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BIABDude
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 19:10:49
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craigb
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 19:22:22
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BIABDude was his name CJ PWF! (Poser wettingly funny)
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 20:23:19
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Reece, does he really want praise or is he honestly asking your opinion? My problem is I'm too honest. When someone asks my opinion, I ask them if they are sure they want it because they may not like what I say. I'm working with a few talented artists from this board right now. One of them is too talented for his own good, but he's not perfect. I'd feel like I was doing him an injustice if I just said all nice things. Granted, if something is good, I'm going to go out on a limb and make sure he knows it blew my doors off. I also know that he is most likely financially secure and money is not an issue with our project. However, before I do comment on his stuff I make sure that my comments are credible for the style. I'd hate like heck to have him spend a boat load of money with me because I didn't like what he did so he kept at it until he made me happy....and spent way too much. You have to find a happy medium with this stuff. If you are not down with something, you should never fear that you'd hurt someones feelings to where they would go somewhere else. You're a pretty good communicator from what I see bro....I don't think you'd come off wrong as long as you're professional. I tell my guys I work with that I will be brutally honest with them. But I'm never hurtful. They trust in me because they know for most things, I know what I'm talking about and would never do anything to get my name on something or for the sake of prolonging the project, detering their progress or making more money off of them. But sometimes you have to make the call when something isn't quite right. The reason being, it's your name on that too as the engineer or producer. When the stuff gets played for other people, you want them to say "wow, where did you have that recorded at...it sounds terrific!" Instead of..."uggh, where did you have that recorded at...it sounds terrible?!" You have to be happy with it too unless you are just in business to provide a service based on the clients vision. That's how it starts for me too, but as they get to know me and see/hear what I'm about, they ask me things they may not ask another engineer. It's all in the delivery, ya know? But I can't let something out of my studio that I'm not happy with unless someone comes to me and says "look, we have this vision...it's etched in stone and isn't really negotiable or up for discussion. We need to perform and we need you to just capture what we perform and we'll run the show." I've never been in that position and I hope I never am. I like to think that I have made a major difference in the sounds my clients get because they trusted in my opinions past and present. I like being the 5th Beatle, ya know? I like when they ask me what I'm thinking or "how would you do this, Danny?" It's really an honor if you think about it. Someone is asking you to help them with their art. They want you to be a part of it...help them see it through because they may be too close to it while missing the obvious. They may need you to crack the whip on them to perform in a way they would never perform without you. You push them to another level and it's a good thing especially if you know the style and what you're talking about. The guy I mentioned that I'm working with....he sent me really great stuff as a starting point. But he really wanted me to get involved to make it better. Listening back to what we had from the start vs. what we have now...the differences are night and day in my opinion and it was for the better. It took a bit longer, it cost a few more dollars, but the end results totally obliterate what we started with and we both feel this way. So don't be afraid to take the bull by the horns and make a difference. You'll enjoy things a lot more and it also helps you to learn and grow because you involve yourself in something you may not have ever thought you'd get involved with before. The end result of this can mean even more business your way because you got involved and made a difference for the better. And, most importantly, you made the client happy to where now he has trust in you and knows that without you, his material will not be as strong. :) Best of luck Reece! -Danny
post edited by Danny Danzi - 2011/08/19 20:28:45
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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bapu
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 20:46:35
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Danny Danzi I tell my guys I work with that I will be brutally honest with them. But I'm never hurtful. They trust in me .... -Danny +123.9876725626%
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Beagle
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 21:50:38
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Danny - you are absolutely correct about being honest. it is necessary. and this guy is good, especially when he's "ad-libbing" on the fly with the backing he's already laid down. I do believe that if I were to give him honest feedback which wasn't 100% praise that he would appreciate it. so far, tho, I've not been much of a "producer" - mostly just a "tape recorder" if you know what I mean. When we start the CD project he'll have to be able to handle a more "honest" approach to the work. The CD will not only reflect on him, but on me as well, so it will need to be as good as I can help him be as a producer and mixing engineer. So far, tho, he hasn't paid for that yet. he's only paid for empty praise and me pushing a couple of buttons.
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craigb
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 22:08:07
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Hey! Thought we had a new member for a moment. Holy crap! Beagle changed his avatar! Hehe...
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Beagle
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/19 22:32:33
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I do that occassionally just to keep everyone on their toes. (it's easier for me to get their becan if they're on their toes!!!)
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Moshkiae
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/20 00:20:01
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Hi, Major Dennis Bloodnock to the rescue! His middle name was Bapu last I heard!
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/20 04:27:08
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Welcome back Pedro Where have you been hiding?
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/20 08:53:04
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+1 to DD's post. I spent a few hours working with a young lady in my studio in the last few days. She was recommended to me by several people as a singer and I knew her through my daughter who also said she can sing. I asked her if she'd like to try singing on a song I was working on based solely on those recommendations. It was a shot in the dark as I had never heard her sing..... but she agreed and actually showed up on time. ( well only 15 minutes late, but for a singer.... that's on time ....isn't it? oh yeah.... she called to say she was running late....!) The microphone can be brutally honest. And on playback she commented on her own singing.... "that was really pitchy, wasn't it? " I told her it was probably nerves and lets try it again, and again, and again. Since it was her first time recording, I spent some time talking about mic technique, and really paying attention to every word, every phrase, and every letter in the lyrics... so many things to contemplate. I also told her that singing in the studio is not like singing on a stage or with a choral group. When we finished a take, I would ask her first, what SHE though of the take and listen to her comments. Then I would point out things I heard, such as how she attacked (approached) a note or wavered in the note or how she slurred the note up (or down) at the end..... little details that most people, even singers, would never think of. As she finally started to relax, she was able to sing more like she wanted to sing. Although the takes were not as perfect as they could have been, she learned quite a bit and hopefully, she enjoyed the experience enough to consider working on some more tunes in the future. (PS: this work will be posted in the songs forum in the near future)
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2011/08/20 08:55:13
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/20 09:15:18
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Just bear in mind all the interviews you read with "artists" who say things like "that producer sucked". Which, often means... "the producer was just a bit too honest". A good artist/producer relationship is a like a great marriage. It takes both parties working hard to make the team more powerful. One party can not carry the project to success if the other party isn't up to it. Great relationships will come and go over time... and really great ones will endure. I would advise trying to be something like 70% honest in the hopes that the other party can contribute the other 20-40% of honesty. If you have to provide 100% of the honesty... you are probably not going to end up being appreciated for being 100% honest. :-) best regards, mike
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Jonbouy
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/20 09:31:34
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My favourite engineer/producer only used one sentence, it's meaning varied just by how he said it. If you ever asked his thoughts on a take it went like this; "Did you want to come and have a listen?" or perhaps just the "come and have a listen" part... It could mean various things such as, that take was garbage do it again. You know you fluffed it so why are you even asking? OK, so that was borderline but I know you can do better, and various things in-between but as soon as he said you knew exactly what was required from that point on!
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/08/20 09:37:52
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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bapu
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Re:Recording other artists
2011/08/20 10:44:05
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No wonder The CHB is always saying "did you wanna have a listen mate?" to me.
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