Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX

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d_w_music
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2010/07/27 18:08:10 (permalink)

Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX

I have MC5 with a Rd-300GX using USB connection. I want all MIDI playing at this time, no audio.
 
A couple of things:
  • When I record to MC5, seems like the events and the effects don't get recorded (it seems like they are getting sent based on the track view)
  • When I play back, all events, instrument setting, etc are not being sent back
What configuration am I missing? Keyboard, MC5, both.
 
Thanks for the help.
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    Beagle
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    Re:Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX 2010/07/27 18:30:22 (permalink)
    how do you have it connected?  what are your inputs and outputs for the MIDI tracks?

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    d_w_music
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    Re:Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX 2010/07/27 20:30:45 (permalink)
    I am using USB (orignal), drivers are working, I get sound, but it doesn't load the instrument selection and I can't get the drum track to map. I tried USB to midi cable, that didn't work. SO I am using straight USB-USB2
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX 2010/07/27 21:50:14 (permalink)
    DW...   welcome.

    Even though you don't want audio at this point, it needs to be working correctly for the midi to work right.  All the sound is done in the sound card.... what sound card are you using?

    If it is the factory sound card..... that could be the reason you are having issues.

    It's one thing to have all the inputs and outputs set up correctly...once that is done, the sound card MUST be capable of running ALL the midi tracks and their related synths in real time to get playback happening. most factory cards can not handle that. Run a couple of synths or even a couple of instances of Sound Center and you could easily be pushing the factory card beyond it's ability to keep up.

    For that reason, most people here are using external interfaces.


    Tell us about the computer and the sound card you are using with MC5.
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2010/07/27 21:51:59

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    d_w_music
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    Re:Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX 2010/07/27 22:09:01 (permalink)
    I am using a SB sound card, on board is turned off at the bios so XP doesn't pick it up.
    I can get sound from the card (but I have unselected it in the output) and I am using Roland's USB driver, have the keyboard set to Orignal USB drive (which means Roland's driver).
     
    Signals are going to the keyboard (it plays the MIDI), but events, velocity, pan, volume, instrument selection and drum mapping are not sent.
     
    Right now, this is all pure MIDI and all of voices are that of the keyboard. Sound card is not slected as an output. But I have tested it and the card works. 
     
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX 2010/07/27 22:18:45 (permalink)
    It seems to me that you need to be using the soundcard in the computer because it's the only one you have...... but soundblasters pretty much are less than ideal.

    You need to be setting up a soft synth to play back the music.

    If you are having MC5 send it back to the keyboard that might work but it doesn't sound like that's what your doing....and actually that's not the best way to do it either.


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    57Gregy
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    Re:Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX 2010/07/27 22:32:15 (permalink)
    What effects are you using that don't get recorded? If they're the effects in the piano, those effects are applied to the audio output of the piano, they are not MIDI, so they won't get recorded in a MIDI track in MC.
    Channel set-up is important when using MIDI. That might be why your instrument settings are not being sent, If they're all on the same channel, you'll only hear that 1 instrument. The default patch is piano.
    Are you using channel 10 for your drum track? Channel 10 is reserved for drums in the General MIDI standard, but you can have drums on any channel.
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    Tap
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    Re:Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX 2010/07/27 23:43:25 (permalink)
    Looks like a nice keyboard, d_w. The keyboard sends midi information to MC5. It sounds like you are just sending the same midi events back to your Keyboard. If you want to use the audio effects inside MC5 you need to send the midi information ( that you recorded in a midi track ) to a Software Synthesizer loaded in MC5 instead of your Keyboard. Thus, the midi is now being played as audio, which means to hear the sounds, you must have a sound card configured.



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    d_w_music
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    Re:Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX 2010/07/28 07:17:24 (permalink)
     Thanks everyone for your assistance.

    I am technically not using the sound card for anything, nor do I want to. I am using MC to capture (record) all the data sent by the keyboard and to send it back. I used to do this about 20 years ago and the old sequencer I had (Ballade) would capture events such as panning, echo, etc. and send the event back to my MIDI device.
    The expectation was that I could send this information to MC5 and record it and it would then play it back. Understanding the effects are in the RD300. The expectation is not for MC5 to do the effects, just record the event signal and send it back to the RD300 and use the effects built in to the keyboard. Channel 10 is being used on the drum track, but that is my first problem mapping to the RD-300's drum patch. 
    Seems there is a user problem. If anyone can point me to the area of the software I should be working in, I would really appreciate it.

    Once again, thanks to everyone for their assistance.
    post edited by d_w_music - 2010/07/28 07:18:26
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX 2010/07/28 07:44:33 (permalink)
    DW... yeah it is totally possible to use MC5 like that. Using the keyboard to playback.

    However..... if you decided to start using even a low cost external sound card that was designed for audio & midi, you would get much better results.

    What you are doing, as I said, will work but in the stream of creativity, it is very limiting. All the patching and routing that is required to pull that off successfully would drive me crazy, and at the very least, break my thought on the song.

    By using an external card and using soft synths in the program tracks..... the work flow is much smoother. No routing of drums and other stuff..... it's all there, right in front of you ready to be inserted and used within seconds...literally.

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    Beagle
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    Re:Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX 2010/07/28 08:39:04 (permalink)
    d_w_music


     Thanks everyone for your assistance.

    I am technically not using the sound card for anything, nor do I want to. I am using MC to capture (record) all the data sent by the keyboard and to send it back. I used to do this about 20 years ago and the old sequencer I had (Ballade) would capture events such as panning, echo, etc. and send the event back to my MIDI device.
    The expectation was that I could send this information to MC5 and record it and it would then play it back. Understanding the effects are in the RD300. The expectation is not for MC5 to do the effects, just record the event signal and send it back to the RD300 and use the effects built in to the keyboard. Channel 10 is being used on the drum track, but that is my first problem mapping to the RD-300's drum patch. 
    Seems there is a user problem. If anyone can point me to the area of the software I should be working in, I would really appreciate it.

    Once again, thanks to everyone for their assistance.


    hi d_w - which effects specifically are you not getting?  you mentioned panning and panning should work, but "echo" is not a General MIDI (GM) event, so that won't work.  after you record something from your keyboard, look at the EVENT list and see if the FX got recorded that you're trying to record.

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    Robomusic
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    Re:Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX 2010/07/28 11:41:32 (permalink)
    If you are routing the midi from the keyboard to the program and back VIA USB cable, then using the keyboards built in speakers, or a audio cable out to a speaker source all should be well. Midi will record all basic midi events like volume, velocity, bends, on and off, patch etc. Things like effects will be added at the track level, in the effects bin of that particular track in MC5. Your sound card will not even come into play.

    The guys are technically right about SB cards not being the best, but they are adequate for basic stuff, in fact they were the only game in town for a long time, and a lot of very good music was recorded on them. The biggest advantage to upgrading the card is that you can get one with midi in and out and simplify the midi process.

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    Beagle
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    Re:Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX 2010/07/28 12:34:20 (permalink)
    yeah, as far as the SB card, I have to agree with robo that it's not the best, but it's still better than the onboard soundcard.

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    d_w_music
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    Re:Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX 2010/07/28 16:10:55 (permalink)
    Thanks everyone, I will do some experiments and will post back here with either more questions or how the problem was solved. 

    Like I said, it has been awhile since I have worked with MIDI. 

    A PC200 controller, LAPC-1, Ballade Sequencer and a 286/20MB hard drive was my first MIDI outfit from '89.

    I've a lot of catching up to do! 
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX 2010/07/28 20:28:11 (permalink)
    take a look at my web site. I have some stuff there that might help refresh you on the midi stuff.

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    d_w_music
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    Re:Recording with MC5 and Roland RD-300GX 2010/07/28 21:54:34 (permalink)
    GH, I will do that. I am in information mode more that creative mode right now. Trying to get everything setup.

    So the drum problem has been solved. Turned out that the mapping file I used was not mapping correctly. Options->MIDI Devices and I selected the correct input/ouput which is my USB driver.

    Then Options->Instruments->Assign Instruments, I was using Roland GS package (Thinking, Roland Keyboard, should map, wrong), When I assigned channel 10 to XG drum kits, then SFX Drum Kit, then any selection (Standard, Jaz, etc) under the GM2 guide, everything worked.

    Thanks all for the help.

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