Helpful ReplyRecording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths

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notfadeaway...
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2013/11/07 17:29:37 (permalink)

Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths

I will admit honestly that I did not know where to post this because I am using Sonar X3 but realize this may be a technique, midi, gear question..
Long story short, I have recently discovered that I have been recording EVERYTHING I ever did in the last 8 years way too hot and that's why my mixes SUCK. Kool. Now I'm recording at -18 to -12 for vocals , acoustic etc.....
Question is I use my new toy Trilian. I use EZ Drummer as well. These pre recorded awesome top notch samples are already blasting at -3 or even 0 when plugged into a track. Also when I use guitar rig, I almost cant' turn gain down on my RME Fireface 800 to get a "quiet enough track". Guitar rig just slams the gain meter. 
How will this effect my mixing levels or how do I handle/compensate for this during my recording/mixing process?

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#1
jb101
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/07 17:32:02 (permalink)
Turn down the gain knob at top of each track in console view/inspector.
 
Many soft synths are way too hot.

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notfadeaway...
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/07 17:34:12 (permalink)
So I guess that's what I was wondering. Is that the simple/only solution. During mix simply turn down the gain knob. I assume many of these synths and samples have already been compressed etc. 

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#3
notfadeaway...
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/07 17:35:21 (permalink)
thank you!
 

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#4
jb101
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/07 20:02:13 (permalink)
notfadeaway...
So I guess that's what I was wondering. Is that the simple/only solution. During mix simply turn down the gain knob. I assume many of these synths and samples have already been compressed etc. 




 
Yessum.
 
Works for me.
 
Some people use the gain knob to balance all the tracks, so that the faders can stay around 0db.  That way the fader movements are more precise.
 
I don't always bother.
 
I always try for a static fader mix first, and in mono.
 
Just my way of working, though.

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shmuelyosef
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/08 00:28:58 (permalink)
jb101
Turn down the gain knob at top of each track in console view/inspector.
 Many soft synths are way too hot.

 
Is there any way to save the 'preferred' gain settings for various soft synths? I occasionally get 'BLASTED' because I start previewing without turning it down. The other way (starting too soft) would be far preferable...

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#6
Anderton
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/08 01:00:12 (permalink)
jb101
Turn down the gain knob at top of each track in console view/inspector.
 
Many soft synths are way too hot.




I second that.

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#7
Shambler
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/08 01:22:45 (permalink)
Some soft synths need the gain turning way down, sometimes by -20 or more as they are way too hot.

I suppose this is better than them being too quiet and must be by design.

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Teds_Studio
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/08 02:08:12 (permalink)
As a general rule I usually turn all the track gains down to -10 to start a new project.  If you end up with several tracks, your project tends to be way too hot, as you have obviously found out.  Superior Drummer alone can be pushing maximum master level before anything else is added.

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sharke
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/08 02:39:49 (permalink)
I like to start my gain staging at the synth itself. You can turn Trilian way down. A lot of the presets have tons of effects on them as well which introduce a ton of gain. I usually begin by killing all of those pesky effects. 
 
Guitar Rig has gain sliders at the top. And of course all the amps have volume/master controls as well. Go right to the source and turn those mofo's down!

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notfadeaway...
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/08 09:55:43 (permalink)
thanks all so much for the help. I just wasn't sure where to turn gain down so as not to lose quality in the synths. Guitar Rig was the biggest ****. Blastin' me out as soon as I input plugin'. 

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#11
John
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/08 11:39:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dubdisciple 2013/11/08 11:44:52
I have rarely ever touched the gain control on a track. To me they are last resorts for poorly recorded audio or badly setup soft synths. When using a synth most if not all have a volume control.  Many have a mixer as well. The idea that one would not use these controls seems odd to me. True its hard to cause Sonar to clip but that may not be true of a synth internally. The gain control wont have any effect on what happens to the signal before it reaches it. 
 
In Kontakt for example there are two places to adjust the level for an instrument . One is on the instrument itself at the top to the right and of coarse the mixer. One should not have to resort to the gain in Sonar. Between these two controls one should get a good signal then in Sonar use the faders to balance the overall mix. In BFD3 there is a global volume control plus the mixer.  
 
If one looks at soft synths as similar to a hardware synth and adjusts it in the same way one would for a hardware synth the gain should be left at unity.  
 
I may be advocating more work for the user but I think the results justify it.  
 

Best
John
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dubdisciple
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/08 11:47:25 (permalink)
I second John's statements.  Those volume controls are there for a reason and it's also a good way to make sure the instrument itself is not spiking before it even reaches the channel.  Pentagon is notorious for doing that on some patches.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/08 12:44:53 (permalink)
+3
 
Following John's BFD3 comment, I run BFD2 and always reduce all the faders down to -10dB
 
If you're auditioning soft synth patches, stick a limiter after the synth output to protect your ears AND your monitors.

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slartabartfast
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/08 12:58:57 (permalink)
A limiter may be a good safety device, but I am not sure that listening to the softsynth output modified by severe compression is the best way to audition the sound. Unless you plan to use the same limiter in the mix, the sound you hear during auditioning will not be the sound you are looking for. And if you are just going to turn off the limiter after re-adjusting the gain at some point, it would not be much less work than pulling the gain down before you audition and bringing it up to the level you want.
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CJaysMusic
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/08 13:13:25 (permalink)
For me and many other engineers i have worked with or have viewed their workflow, The Gain knobs are set at zero and hardly ever moved. The fader is used to adjust the volume. The gain knob is pre effect, so take that in note and the faders are what is used 99.9% if the time to adjust volume, not the gain knob.
 
That said, if you are having volume issues with your synths, then you need to adjust one of these things, all the above, 2 of these things, 3 of these things, 4 of these things, 5 of these things or 6 of these things listed below:
1. Its the patch.
2. Some synths have a volume adjustment
3. Some have a gain adjustment
4. Some synths have input adjustment
5. Some synths have output adjustments
6. The velocity for the MIDI data that synth is processing
7. The audio track fader that is outputting that MIDI's sound it produces from its MIDI track
 
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Shambler
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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/08 13:50:28 (permalink)
It is a shame that different patches on a synth are not all normalised to be of similar volume, this goes for soft synths and hardware.

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Re: Recording/Mixing/Mastering Gain Levels for synths 2013/11/08 14:38:12 (permalink)
Shambler
It is a shame that different patches on a synth are not all normalised to be of similar volume, this goes for soft synths and hardware.




It's the fault of whomever designed the patches. They're not designed with practicality in mind, they're designed to wow you when you're going through them. That's also why most of them are awash with reverb and way more frequencies than you need. 

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