Recording/latency issues...

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CasperKincaid
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2010/12/02 00:57:42 (permalink)

Recording/latency issues...

 Alright, I hate starting new threads especially in places I dont go to often. But the other latency thread I saw wasnt helpfull...
 
 Just bought MC 5. Recorded a track, but when I played it back there was popping and clicking, and it sped it up slightly. I went thru some trouble shooting stuff, such as adjusting the latency slider and what not, but it still didnt help...actually it made it worse.
 
Any advice?
 
 I'm using windows Vista, my sound stuff is Realtek if that helps....
 
 Thanks for any help.
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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:Recording/latency issues... 2010/12/02 02:36:00 (permalink)
    The speeding up is usually a symptom of sample rate mismatch. Check that your Realtek and MC5 are using the same sample rate.

    Onboard cards often require MME drivers, which are the worst. ASIO4ALL (free download) or WDM drivers might also bring some light to the darkness.

    The onboard cards are not capable of low latency audio work. Often you can manage with them somehow, often the only way to proper sound and fluent workflow is to buy a decent soundcard.

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    CasperKincaid
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    Re:Recording/latency issues... 2010/12/02 03:10:39 (permalink)
    Ok, you were right about the sample rate, and I adjusted them to be the same. Now the speed issue is resolved.

     I did like a 15 second vocal track and everything was fine.

     When I did a 15 second guitar track, there was still chipping and cracking during playback.

     MME Drivers? I don't really know a WHOLE lot about my computer...well computers in general.

     When I go to select my inputs my options are MME Devices(left, right, & stereo Realtech...). So does that mean I have a MME driver? Which is apparently bad? My other options are Cakewalk TTS-1 1, then it gives a bunch of outputs...1, 2, 3, 4 left right stereo for each number....I'm guessing I'm not worried about that since its output(but it's under the input options)?

     Any more advice on that? Or would I be better off sticking with Audacity? (Which I cant get my USB microphone to record in THAT program)

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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:Recording/latency issues... 2010/12/02 06:07:44 (permalink)
    O-oh. USB mic. It would be SO useful to have your specs in the signature. Using a USB mic is one more obstacle. Your computer sees the USB mic as another soundcard, so you can expect troubles with it. There's sticky about it in the SONAR LE forum.

    You choose the drivers in the Options-dialogue. I've never used MC so I don't know the details of the prompts and dropdowns in it.

    MC is much more capable than Audacity. Audacity doesn't even support VSTs, does it?

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Recording/latency issues... 2010/12/02 08:04:53 (permalink)
    USB mics are nothing but trouble. Sorry, there's no other way to state it.

    If you really want to use a USB mic... have a serious look at this thread perhaps it will help you.... perhaps not.


    My advice is to return the USB mic if it's new and use the credit at the store to get a decent audio/midi interface.  If it's past the point of return, give it to a friend who will use it for podcasting and chalk it up as a lesson learned.

    Currently, you are required to use 2 soundcards (from the computer's point of view) and the timing sync issues are just a part of the problem you are experiencing.

    The popping and clicking is an indication that the realtec is not able to handle all the data in real time. It drops some of it in an attempt to catch up and you hear a click or a pop when that happens. Try to force more data through and the card may actually drop the audio stream altogether, resulting in a drop out.

     Having a good external USB music interface that IS capable of handling the large amount of data will solve that problem. In addition, that ONE external soundcard becomes the default sound card for MC5 and the realtec is totally ignored and is out of the equation.

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    #5
    CasperKincaid
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    Re:Recording/latency issues... 2010/12/02 18:02:22 (permalink)
    I havent had time to check those other forums you suggested, but I'll get to it.

     I dont see how my USB mic would mess anything up. It actually records, and my test yesterday it was fine on playback too. It's the guitar now thats chipping and cracking. And I unplug the USB, so the computer doesnt even know it's there. I was recording with audacity just fine with it(guitar). Thats why I think its gotta have something to do with cakewalk.

     You ARE right tho, I get alot of drop outs too. So it may very well be my sound card. But how was it fine with audacity...and fine with Pro Tools SE(sort of). 

     I'm sorry, I dont know my exact specs. I'd have to find my computers box or manual. I can tell you what I do know.

    Mic- Avid M-Audio (came with pro tools SE)
    Guitar, I plug straight into the 1/8th mic input of my laptop(I have no amp).
    Windows Vista
    Realtech
    umm...it's a pretty standard laptop as far as I know. Bought it about a year ago, or year and half ago.

    You probably need more info then that, i'll have to find it, if you really need it.

    Otherwise, your saying i'm pretty much screwed and should have just stuck with my 20 dollar radioshack mic?
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Recording/latency issues... 2010/12/02 19:49:49 (permalink)
    OK.... read the thread IF you are going to use the USB mic.

    You may not see it, but we have been helping lots of people through the years, you are not the first.... who went and bought a USB mic.... trust us when we say  to you, that you should get rid of it.

    The drop outs ARE from the soundcard in the computer being below standard.  Audacity doesn't require the soundcard to do what MC does.  So yes it will work with Audacity.

    If you can return the USB mic, you can swap it on for a normal mic and with a few adapters get it into the soundcard easy enough.

    Plain and simple, the software is just the first of several steps you need to take to get up and recording with MC. However, once you get a real mic and a decent interface you are pretty much set to go.

    I recorded for several years on an off the shelf Dell lappy. I have a nice 2 channel interface and a real mic. It is worth it to do this right... with the proper equipment, even if you have to save a few weeks or more to get the right gear.  To get up & running fast, a 20 dollar mic from the shack and an adapter gets you in the game.


    Edit: sorry didn't mean to sound so harsh..... peace love and understanding!

    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2010/12/02 20:04:28

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

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    #7
    Beagle
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    Re:Recording/latency issues... 2010/12/02 21:35:19 (permalink)
    CasperKincaid


    I havent had time to check those other forums you suggested, but I'll get to it.

     I dont see how my USB mic would mess anything up. It actually records, and my test yesterday it was fine on playback too. It's the guitar now thats chipping and cracking. And I unplug the USB, so the computer doesnt even know it's there. I was recording with audacity just fine with it(guitar). Thats why I think its gotta have something to do with cakewalk.

     You ARE right tho, I get alot of drop outs too. So it may very well be my sound card. But how was it fine with audacity...and fine with Pro Tools SE(sort of). 

     I'm sorry, I dont know my exact specs. I'd have to find my computers box or manual. I can tell you what I do know.

    Mic- Avid M-Audio (came with pro tools SE)
    Guitar, I plug straight into the 1/8th mic input of my laptop(I have no amp).
    Windows Vista
    Realtech
    umm...it's a pretty standard laptop as far as I know. Bought it about a year ago, or year and half ago.

    You probably need more info then that, i'll have to find it, if you really need it.

    Otherwise, your saying i'm pretty much screwed and should have just stuck with my 20 dollar radioshack mic?
    I know these guys have already tried explaining, but maybe I can explain a little more.  a USB mic is a soundcard.  yes, it's only one way - input, but it's still considered a soundcard to windows and MC.  since you have to use the onboard soundcard for OUTPUT and the USB mic for INPUT, that means you're using TWO soundcards at the same time.  digital processing requires the soundcards to have clocks.  each of these two soundcards have their own clocks, but one of them has to be the master.  the other one doesn't match the master's clock for digital processing.
     
    so since you're using 2 soundcards with 2 separate clocks but one of them has to be the master - that means you will have stuttering, dropout, and most importantly sync problems even if you resolve the other problems.  whenever you record longer clips you'll notice the tracks moving away from each other in time.  that's due to the 2 clocks problem.
     
    Now - when you unplug the USB mic and still have stuttering and dropout, that's because the onboard soundcard and its drivers are very inefficient.  you can move the latency slider to the SAFE side and try to reduce the stuttering and dropout, but that will increase latency.
     
    you can try ASIO4ALL like was mentioned above, but that will cause a problem with you using the USB mic because ASIO allows only 1 soundcard at a time.
     
    the best solution is to get a "recording" soundcard with quality efficient drivers and a traditional mic.  I have recommendations for both on my website.

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    57Gregy
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    Re:Recording/latency issues... 2010/12/02 22:07:26 (permalink)
    Guitar, I plug straight into the 1/8th mic input of my laptop(I have no amp).

     
    In the Windows mixer (double-click the speaker icon in the system tray at the bottom), and see if you can change the input to Line In instead of Mic In when recording the guitar.
    When playing the guitar through the sound card without MC opened, does it still make the noises? If so, it could be a bad guitar cord or bad 1/4"-to-1/8" adapter.
    In MC under Options>Audio, what is the listing for Driver Mode, Buffers In Playback Queue, I/O Buffers and what is the latency slider set to (reported latency)?

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    elboned
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    Re:Recording/latency issues... 2010/12/03 23:01:30 (permalink)
    I put together a PC for my one niece to use though I haven't delivered it yet.  I put the Audacity program on it for her kids to play with.  In case they had any questions I took Audacity for a "test drive" as that was my first experience with it.  Recorded 6 mono tracks of the first two verses of Neverending Love (Delaney and Bonnie) a whole 40 seconds worth with one of those cheap Labtec microphones that you plug into the PC mic input.  The results, while not stellar were reasonably impressive.  I played every track along to the click track and didn't have to worry about latency because of the shortness and simplicity of the song.  Delete the click track and export as mp3 and it was a nice little mix.  Didn't mess with the effects much.  It was a fun afternoon project that I think the kids could learn to handle.  MC is nice for me but free is good.
     
    And I put the 40 second song on my wifes mp3 player for an anniversary "present" and she was just tickled pink and went around playing it for everyone.

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