Reduced sound quality between playback and "real sound"

Author
Olavas
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18
  • Joined: 2016/07/17 11:29:46
  • Status: offline
2016/08/26 17:04:43 (permalink)

Reduced sound quality between playback and "real sound"

Hi,

I notice that when I play trough my line6 xt pro direct to my interface, I get a decent good and clear sound coming out of my monitor speakers.
However, if I record this and then listen to the playback, I notice that the guitar tone are very high on the mids, and not so clear and airy in the high frequency as the sound that I hear in real time while playing.
I record at 24bit 48khz.

Anyone else experience this?
#1

12 Replies Related Threads

    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re: Reduced sound quality between playback and "real sound" 2016/08/26 17:42:41 (permalink)
    Are you input monitoring through SONAR or direct-monitoring through the interface? The latter will likely be a pure analog path, bypassing the interface's A/D/A converters, in which case the difference is likely due to converter quality (or lack thereof).
     
    Input monitoring through SONAR should sound the same as recording and playback, but the act of performing and interacting with an instrument in real time can alter the listening experience. And if you're not monitoring with headphones, the combined sound from your monitors and direct sound from the guitar is going to sound different in the room than playback of the recorded DI sound only.

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #2
    Olavas
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 18
    • Joined: 2016/07/17 11:29:46
    • Status: offline
    Re: Reduced sound quality between playback and "real sound" 2016/08/27 05:51:35 (permalink)
    Hi, thanks for the reply but I'm not sure I understood the answer. I connect my guitar rig to the input 1&2 on my interface (motu896mk3). In sonar I choose the input directly from the motu ins, mono or 1&2 if I need a stereo track. So the sound is the same through my monitors all the time and also even if I'm just playing with my PC of.
    #3
    tenfoot
    Max Output Level: -53.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2186
    • Joined: 2015/01/22 18:12:07
    • Location: Qld, Australia
    • Status: offline
    Re: Reduced sound quality between playback and "real sound" 2016/08/27 06:21:55 (permalink)
    If you can hear sound without activating the input echo on your audio tracks in Sonar, you are direct monitoring (via your interface control software) rather than monitoring through Sonar. 
     
     
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X2&language=3&help=Recording.22.html
     

    Bruce.
     
    Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
    #4
    Olavas
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 18
    • Joined: 2016/07/17 11:29:46
    • Status: offline
    Re: Reduced sound quality between playback and "real sound" 2016/08/27 06:50:46 (permalink)
    Hmmmm, ok so that means that the weak spot can be the AD DA converters in my interface?
    #5
    tenfoot
    Max Output Level: -53.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2186
    • Joined: 2015/01/22 18:12:07
    • Location: Qld, Australia
    • Status: offline
    Re: Reduced sound quality between playback and "real sound" 2016/08/27 07:10:52 (permalink)
    I wouldn't necessarily call it a weak spot - either way your interface is still doing the AD conversion. It just may explain why you are hearing a difference in your monitoring chain.

    Bruce.
     
    Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
    #6
    jouvina
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4
    • Joined: 2015/01/22 11:33:33
    • Status: offline
    Re: Reduced sound quality between playback and "real sound" 2016/09/02 17:29:14 (permalink)
    I came here to figure out the same thing. I'm monitoring from SONAR and for me there's a clear degradation from the monitored signal to the recorded one. I guess there could be some resampling of the signal from the one you hear while monitoring to the one that is actually recorded and played back later.
     
    Anyone knows if SONAR handles internally high quality sampling to do the math on the signal that later could be downgraded to match the audio driver settings?
     
    I use a Radial J48 --> A&H ZED R16 --firewire-ASIO 48/24-> NI Guitar Rig 5.
     
    Any help would be appreciated.
     
    #7
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16775
    • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
    • Location: Bristol, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: Reduced sound quality between playback and "real sound" 2016/09/02 18:40:07 (permalink)
    Sonar's internal maths runs at 64 bit floating point - no chance of degradation there.

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #8
    MBGantt
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 57
    • Joined: 2015/01/21 19:22:30
    • Status: offline
    Re: Reduced sound quality between playback and "real sound" 2016/09/02 18:50:48 (permalink)
    What you hear is what you recorded. Either there is something with the direct monitoring issue or your mind/ears are not hearing it the same while recording verses playback. At these sample rates and so on there is no difference that your ears should be able to discern.
    #9
    jouvina
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4
    • Joined: 2015/01/22 11:33:33
    • Status: offline
    Re: Reduced sound quality between playback and "real sound" 2016/09/02 19:15:14 (permalink)
    Thanks for your answers. I'm going to setup a test to use other ears ;-)
    #10
    tlw
    Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2567
    • Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
    • Location: West Midlands, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: Reduced sound quality between playback and "real sound" 2016/09/02 20:11:09 (permalink)
    One thing that might be happening is this. Unless you use headphones with good external noise reduction or your monitors are loud enough to completely drown out the acoustic sound a guitar, even a solid body, makes when played then when you are playing you hear a mix of the amplified guitar and the acoustic sound.
     
    On playback you only hear the (recorded) amplified sound, which will be different to the combination (acoustic) guitar+monitors. With my guitars at least, the tracked sound is generally a bit less bright and a bit less open than what I hear when playing with monitors/amp at low volumes.
     
    If you're using an amp emulator (or an amp at low volumes) how you set the tone control(s) might also be affected by what you hear of the guitar acoustically, and when that acoustic sound is missing things are no longer set correctly to give the sound you want.

    Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board,
    ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre.
    Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
    #11
    jouvina
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4
    • Joined: 2015/01/22 11:33:33
    • Status: offline
    Re: Reduced sound quality between playback and "real sound" 2016/09/03 11:14:12 (permalink)
    Follow up. I did the test and did find my problem. I had the Input Gain of the track at a non zero value. The Input Gain control is bypassed during record/monitoring but (of course) not in playback.
     
    As the official signal flow chart clearly shows, it is a feature not a bug but something critical to pay attention if you use amp simulation with effects sensible to input volume (like compressors): 
     
    Thanks to all for your answers.
    #12
    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re: Reduced sound quality between playback and "real sound" 2016/09/03 11:21:03 (permalink)
    Thanks for following up with the forum to let us know. Glad you got it figured out.

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #13
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1