Reference Manual Page 683

Mod Bod


I mentioned this accidentally in another thread so I'm posting it in case it's there and I'm too thick to see it.

Page 683 in the PDF Reference Guide says that in the Inline Piano Roll view you can "• Use separate Snap to Grid settings in the Clips pane mode and Inline Piano Roll mode."  Well, this is certainly a wonderful thing but either the feature was there and got cut at the last moment because it wasn't ready and somebody forgot to tell the Reference Guide Team supervisor, it never was there and the Reference Guide team was wishfully thinking or it's buried somewhere and poor old Dave can't find it.

Help a brother out?

Take a look at this.  I posted this awhile back, a screen capture vid I made during one of my poke-around-with X1 sessions. 

You can see note lengths being chosen via the Smart Tool selections, and the Universal Grid is separate.  One is the length of the note, the other is determining how the note snaps to the Grid.  But then when I choose 16th as a note length, suddenly the Universal Grid changes to 16th also.  It's still not clear to me what's really supposed to be happening, but you can see for awhile at least, the two controls are behaving independently:

PRV vid

Randy - MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

Randy,

I tried to duplicate your experience and ran into a strange phenom. I could NOT draw in any MIDI notes with the 'Smart Tool'. I had to use the 'Draw' tool instead. And no matter how many changes I made in PRV the snap setting did not change.

I'm usually missing something pretty obvious but is there a setting for the smart tool I'm missing?

HumbleNoise


Randy,

I tried to duplicate your experience and ran into a strange phenom. I could NOT draw in any MIDI notes with the 'Smart Tool'. I had to use the 'Draw' tool instead. And no matter how many changes I made in PRV the snap setting did not change.

I'm usually missing something pretty obvious but is there a setting for the smart tool I'm missing?

To insert notes with the Smart Tool, you hold Alt at the same time, and then it changes to the Draw tool.  With the same Smart Tool, you can move the note, split the note, right click to erase.

For me, the note length choice via clicking the mouse wheel stays independent of the Universal Grid until a 16th note is selected.  Then the Grid changes - like in the video.

Randy B.

Mod Bod



Will that occur with any other note length?  Just to determine if it's value of the note length or a certain number of changes to the settings that triggers the behavior.

Hi - I'm not sure what your question means.  Will What occur with other note lengths?-- In the vid you can see that I keep changing the note value, and the Grid stays at its own setting, but then when a 16th note length is chosen in the PRV, then the Grid changes to 16th note also.  The same thing happens when any value smaller than a 16h is selected.  To get the Grid back to its independent state, I click it and choose another value.

Confusing. -

But when it's working the way I feel it should, the Grid will have a snap value which is one thing - like 1/2 notes, and the note length picker in PRV can have another value, so, in this case, notes with are a 1/4 in length are being insert at 1/2 note intervals.

Like I said - it's still not clear to me if part of this is actually broken.  How much of this behavior is what the programmers intended?

Randy B.

HumbleNoise


Thanks Randy,

I didn't know about the alt key. Really amazed at how much I DON'T know about X1. That makes the Smart tool really 'Smart'.

I tried duplicating the steps in your video and could NOT get the grid to change. They always stay separate. Weird.

You can also double click to draw a note.

rbowser

HumbleNoise



I tried duplicating the steps in your video and could NOT get the grid to change. They always stay separate. Weird.

I experimented a little after reading your post -No matter what settings I try, the note length choice in PRV changes the Grid resolution when I choose 16th or smaller. 

Having the main Grid effecting things in every view is probably the #1 complaint about the simplifications made to Sonar in X1 - But here I am seeing that the note length Can be independent of the Grid, but only Sometimes.  They start locking in together, and the only way to get them independent again is click the Grid, make a choice - and then the PRV length selection doesn't effect the Grid until I choose 16th or smaller, and then they lock in together again.

So you're saying that you call up the tool palette, choose various note lengths, and the main Grid never changes? - I have no idea why we're getting different things.  My Preferences for "Snap and Nudge" are "Move To" and Magnetic Strength Off.  But just now I tried changing those settings, and nothing changed the PRV behavior we're talking about.

- Note that having Magnetic Strength Off is actually giving you the STrongest magnetic strength, with notes snapping absolutely to the chosen resolution.

Randy B.

I tried to duplicate your video steps exactly - numerous times now. Can't get the 2 grid settings to change. I have Magnetic Strength set to medium but that didn't change anything as you noted.

I wonder if there's a specific way you're getting to the PRV that's haivng an effect? I only mention that because I had an old PRV in a screen set that was created by creating a MIDI clip then deleting the notes, then saving that PRV view. Caused all kinds of problems.

This has got me a bit intrigued though I'll let you now if I can duplicate your events.

In PRV if you click >View>Grid Resolution>Follow Snap Settings  'Follow Snap Settings' is grayed out on my X1. Is that activated, or not, on yours?

Just to help you guys focus on your problems,

...the view-> Grid resolution has NOTHING to do with snap to grid. Its rather your options of the VISUAL grid lines in PRV.
So for example if you set 1/4 there you will have a VISUAL grid in the pRV on every 1/4 but you still can snap your notes to 1/16 if that is your "snap to grid" settings. Its only a visual thing.

Now as far as they greyed out option, it says "follow snap settings". What this means, is that if you have that option checked, then the VISUAL grid changes and reflects to your "snap settings". This works in earlier versions. The fact that it is gryed out is also a bug introduced from earlier versions. To enable (un-grey) that option you have to:

1. undock the PRV
2. click on top-left icon and "disable floating"

Now the option WILL NOT be greyed out.

This bug has been acknowledged by a Cakewalk stuff a few days ago, he mentions that the option is only available when the PRV window is in MDI mode (what I described in steps 1 and 2) and will soon be fixed.

HOWEVER notice that there were a couple of X1 users who reported that even though they managed to un-grey the option and check it, their grid in piano roll wasnt following their snap to grid settings - ie it wasnt updated to reflect snap to grid settings.

Again to help you avoid confusion, grid resolution in views has NOTHING to do with snapping a note or a clip anywhere, it only refers to the VISUAL guides (lines) of the PRV

Hope I made sense! ;)

lol sorry my friend, I think Im not the one to blame!

Or am I? lol

In any case, forget the greyed out option, try different resolutions to view-> Grid resolution and notice what changes in the PRV view - an empty PRV view no notes to get what Im saying! ;)

thegeek


Just to help you guys focus on your problems,

...the view-> Grid resolution has NOTHING to do with snap to grid. Its rather your options of the VISUAL grid lines in PRV.
So for example if you set 1/4 there you will have a VISUAL grid in the pRV on every 1/4 but you still can snap your notes to 1/16 if that is your "snap to grid" settings. Its only a visual thing.

Now as far as they greyed out option, it says "follow snap settings". What this means, is that if you have that option checked, then the VISUAL grid changes and reflects to your "snap settings". This works in earlier versions. The fact that it is gryed out is also a bug introduced from earlier versions. To enable (un-grey) that option you have to:

1. undock the PRV
2. click on top-left icon and "disable floating"

Now the option WILL NOT be greyed out.

This bug has been acknowledged by a Cakewalk stuff a few days ago, he mentions that the option is only available when the PRV window is in MDI mode (what I described in steps 1 and 2) and will soon be fixed.

HOWEVER notice that there were a couple of X1 users who reported that even though they managed to un-grey the option and check it, their grid in piano roll wasnt following their snap to grid settings - ie it wasnt updated to reflect snap to grid settings.

Again to help you avoid confusion, grid resolution in views has NOTHING to do with snapping a note or a clip anywhere, it only refers to the VISUAL guides (lines) of the PRV

Hope I made sense! ;)

How does this relate to the behavior in the video posted in post #2?

It doesnt BUT Im trying to help becauuuuuse it is mentioned in mesage #15. IT IS UNRELATED and thats all Im trying to say!

HumbleNoise


In PRV if you click >View>Grid Resolution>Follow Snap Settings  'Follow Snap Settings' is grayed out on my X1. Is that activated, or not, on yours?

Hmmm, hadn't looked there before.  It's grayed out.  And now here we have yet another resolution menu - and just now when I tried it out, it had no change on the note resolution chosen with the mouse wheel - Those are independent.  Well, this View menu choice doesn't seem to do anything.

I dunno - It's things like this that make me keep returning to 8.5.  That's still where I'm working, at least for now.

Randy B.

thegeek


It doesnt BUT Im trying to help becauuuuuse it is mentioned in mesage #15. IT IS UNRELATED and thats all Im trying to say!

HumbleNoise


In PRV if you click >View>Grid Resolution>Follow Snap Settings  'Follow Snap Settings' is grayed out on my X1. Is that activated, or not, on yours?

Hmmm, hadn't looked there before.  It's grayed out.  And now here we have yet another resolution menu - and just now when I tried it out, it had no change on the note resolution chosen with the mouse wheel - Those are independent.  Well, this View menu choice doesn't seem to do anything.

I dunno - It's things like this that make me keep returning to 8.5.  That's still where I'm working, at least for now.

Randy B.

Got it geek - thanks

No, I've got a satisfactory working method at this time via the screensets which let me create a screen set with a PRV maximized at any snap setting I want.  If I want something different in the Clips Pane, I simply press another number and I'm there with a different snap setting.
 
I could get around to it if would help you.

Amen to that!!!

rbowser

Mod Bod


I mentioned this accidentally in another thread so I'm posting it in case it's there and I'm too thick to see it.

Page 683 in the PDF Reference Guide says that in the Inline Piano Roll view you can "• Use separate Snap to Grid settings in the Clips pane mode and Inline Piano Roll mode."  Well, this is certainly a wonderful thing but either the feature was there and got cut at the last moment because it wasn't ready and somebody forgot to tell the Reference Guide Team supervisor, it never was there and the Reference Guide team was wishfully thinking or it's buried somewhere and poor old Dave can't find it.

Help a brother out?

Take a look at this.  I posted this awhile back, a screen capture vid I made during one of my poke-around-with X1 sessions. 

You can see note lengths being chosen via the Smart Tool selections, and the Universal Grid is separate.  One is the length of the note, the other is determining how the note snaps to the Grid.  But then when I choose 16th as a note length, suddenly the Universal Grid changes to 16th also.  It's still not clear to me what's really supposed to be happening, but you can see for awhile at least, the two controls are behaving independently:

PRV vid

Randy - MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

Yeah, I get that behavior. It's annoying to me. Certainly not a show stopper but annoying.