References for great sounds

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tfbattag
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2011/11/03 23:38:58 (permalink)

References for great sounds

First off, I know that this thread probably exists on a few hundred forums all over, but I feel that I "know" the CW/Sonar forum folks better than the others, thus I'd like to read what you think.

I'm curious as to what your references for "that great sound" are. Especially by instrument. Not performances, but sound. For example, do you have a track that has captured an acoustic guitar sound that you would kill to reproduce? Personally, I am after great snare sounds ('cuz they're eluding me), but since I know that our interpretation and perception of what sounds great is different, I'd really like to know what others think are the greatest guitar, bass, drum piano sounds captured in modern (> 1964) recordings.

Just so you know, I do have a motive. I want to listen to all of your suggestions to see if I can hear what you hear.

Just FYI, an example say in bluesy electric guitar: I really like the sound of Robert Cray on the Strong Persuader album for his percussive picking in solos. SRV on Texas Flood through the old Fender amps vs. later through Marshall setups was to me a much better sound. For metal guys, John Petrucci's Boogie tone vs. Dimebag's Randall tone are much preferred to me. Celine Dion's vocal captured in "My Heart Will Go On" (Titanic theme song) was incredible for it's transparency, etc.

So what do you girls and guys think for acoustic guitars, bass, snare, kick, other instruments and voices?

Thanks, and I look forward to learning from your tastes.

Thomas Battaglia
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/04 06:56:22 (permalink)

    Gee... I tell people that I think Mr Cray is absolutely state of the art. His singing is excellent and he plays hard parts underneath it that sound incredible.

    Ok... I'll throw a name/sound out for discussion: Ornette Coleman.


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    ChuckC
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/04 07:54:37 (permalink)
    It's all (as you know) really subjective.  Everyone has their own preferences.   For drums I prefer a high/tight piccalo sounding snare over those deep 80's snares, with a deep solid kick.  I have used Primus's Tommy the cat as a refference because I like the sound & it's got a nice intro where the drums can be heard before everything else comes in.  I have also refferenced 311 for drums too.

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    Danny Danzi
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/04 10:50:09 (permalink)
    Hey Tom, good to see you still around bro! I'll give you my take for what it's worth.

    Living Color "Cult of Personality" This mix just never sounds bad on any system you play it on...even craptop speakers. Great drum sound, bass, vocals, not hyper-compressed, decent dirty guitar sound.

    Creed "Overcome" I'm not a Creed fan at all...but this entire album is mixed to perfection from start to finish. This song just hits me as one of the coolest modern mixes around. Killer drum sound, perfect use of low end bass without killing things, nice guitar layering.

    Disturbed "Animal" I don't know if it's because I love the vibe of this song or the guitar sound...but I really dig this. Drums and bass are nothing to brag about, but they work well with the rest of it....guitars sound killer.

    The first Trans Siberian Orchestra CD that got them famous. Some really killer sounding material there all across the board.

    Epica: "Imperial March Live" Simply mind-blowing on all instrumentation...this is a must have/listen.

    Soilwork: "As we Speak" There's like a billion tracks on this...lol...guitar layers out the butt...several other instruments. Guitars could use a bit more mids...but this is how to control an enormous mix with scream vocals that go all melodic later.

    Jason Aldean: "She's Country" Love this song...killer instruments and vocals all over.

    Big and Rich: "Save a Horse Ride a Cowboy" Awesome mix of everything...well balanced, powerful...snare could be a bit more dominant. Love the violins in this as well as banjo.

    Rascal Flatts version of "Life is a Highway" This mix kills me...it just makes me smile every time.

    Hope some of these help. I have others....but those are my main "go to's" at the moment.

    -Danny
    post edited by Danny Danzi - 2011/11/04 10:51:33

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    bitflipper
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/04 13:21:41 (permalink)
    Intriguing question. I've used references mainly for evaluating overall mixes, not for specific instrumentation examples.

    For acoustical string instruments, Alison Krauss & Union Station represents near-perfection to my ear. Mixing multiple acoustic string instruments is tricky, since they occupy overlapping frequency domains, but every song on "New Favorite" presents every instrument clearly and with great subtlety. But there I go again, analyzing the mix rather than the individual instruments.

    Maybe that's because each instrument is a component of a larger construct. Those acoustic guitars, banjos, mandolins, etc. might actually sound ugly and thin if you could solo them.

    Makes me wonder if you can really use a completed recording as a reference for individual instruments at all.




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    tfbattag
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/04 17:34:30 (permalink)
    Thanks you guys! This is great. I'm just trying to get better at my craft. I've always mixed in my "favorite set of rails," but I'm trying to diversify a bit. So, having your input as to different sounds from different sources and from different genres is super helpful! I'm going to purchase a bunch of your suggestions to see if I can emulate some of the sounds you like. It's winter time now, and I'll be in the studio 'til the sun comes out in May.

    Thanks Again!

    Thomas Battaglia
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    Danny Danzi
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/04 18:34:03 (permalink)
    bitflipper


    Those acoustic guitars, banjos, mandolins, etc. might actually sound ugly and thin if you could solo them.

    Makes me wonder if you can really use a completed recording as a reference for individual instruments at all.
     
     
    I agree with this 100% bit. But I also think (at least for me) some of these songs can at least give you a general idea on what to shoot for "roughly" as a starting point. Or, sometimes in some of these songs, you get cameo appearances from instruments on their own that DO sound great as well. But yeah...it's amazing how bad some things sound when you solo them up. Even there though, it can teach you how that ugliness can be used in a mix situation. I'm finding this out with a lot of the multi-track stuff from the pro's that I've downloaded. Some of that stuff really does sound bad by itself. Put it in a mix...and magic happens. Weird how it all goes down sometimes, eh? :)
     
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    tfbattag
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/04 18:47:53 (permalink)
    I agree with Bit as well. The songs I listed like Robert Cray and the Celine Dion tune all have really good space and isolation that allow you to hear the individual instruments solo for a second here and there. But to Bit's point, I did notice that when I got some stems and could isolate instrument mixes, they sounded completely different than in the song. One thing that was fun working with stems was to say track drums and mix to the sound of the drums' stem as a reference. Then replacing my tracks into the overall with the other instruments really helped to achieve the sound of the original drummer (sans the great playing of course). This was a great exercise and it's kind of why I asked the question to all of you.

    Thanks,

    Thomas Battaglia
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    timidi
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/04 20:20:39 (permalink)

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    StevenMikel
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/05 02:44:56 (permalink)
    Steve Stevens "Memory Crash" great guitar tones throughout and I realy like how the drums sound.
    Spiritual Beggars "Demons","On Fire" and,"Return to Zero"
    Any S.R.V. album.I like the way the drums sound and all of Stevie's tones.
    Joe Satrani "The Extremist"great rock guitar tones.
    Adele "21",her voice is incredible.
    post edited by StevenMikel - 2011/11/05 02:57:29
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    bitflipper
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/05 12:12:52 (permalink)
    Many of the most memorable and desirable tones are the ones everybody shoots for and nobody ever quite achieves. Think Bonham, Santana, Gilmour.


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    quantumeffect
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/05 12:44:59 (permalink)
    Living Color "Cult of Personality" This mix just never sounds bad on any system you play it on...even craptop speakers. Great drum sound, bass, vocals, not hyper-compressed, decent dirty guitar sound.


    This is an interesting choice and one of my favorites but one observation (and it may just be my lead ears), when I listen to it at high volumes in the car I can perceive the music dropping in volume behind the snare crack ... again maybe it's just ... but I think the effect is noticeable.

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    tfbattag
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/06 23:25:02 (permalink)
    bitflipper


    Many of the most memorable and desirable tones are the ones everybody shoots for and nobody ever quite achieves. Think Bonham, Santana, Gilmour.



    Hi Bit-  I was trying to grab the Gilmour vibe all day today.  I got a good Floydian vibe, but it's pretty hard to sound like the icons. But I agree that the guitar tones and how they sit are fabulous.


    Thomas Battaglia
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    batsbrew
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/07 10:51:10 (permalink)
    THERE IS A LIST COMPILED BY BOB KATZ.

    IT'S CALLED THE 'HONOR ROLL'

    STUDY THIS LIST CAREFULLY

    http://www.digido.com/honor-roll.html

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    tfbattag
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/24 19:15:08 (permalink)
    batsbrew


    THERE IS A LIST COMPILED BY BOB KATZ.

    IT'S CALLED THE 'HONOR ROLL'

    STUDY THIS LIST CAREFULLY

    http://www.digido.com/honor-roll.html

    Thanks Bat! Awesome information.

    Thomas Battaglia
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/24 20:42:37 (permalink)
    Quite a few of my favorite LP's/CD's are on the list.

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    spacey
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/24 22:14:27 (permalink)
    On An Island- David Gilmour.

    When it was released I stated here that it was and haven't
    changed my mind. It's still the first recording I think
    of when I think "reference".
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    SvenArne
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/25 04:07:25 (permalink)
    Bitflipper:
    For acoustical string instruments, Alison Krauss & Union Station represents near-perfection to my ear.
    Hell yeah! I heard the new record on Spotify (paid, full quality), and it made me throw out some of my preconceptions about compressed audio. Did you read the SoS interview with Mike Shipley, the engineer? He went on about how he had to get a special Black Lion-modded 192 I/O to make it sound "less like Pro Tools" (and more like analog tape, I presume). I'm usually super-sceptical about stuff like that, but if he can make a record sound like that... Sven





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    bitflipper
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/25 11:41:19 (permalink)
    So you're a champion bluegrass fiddle player working in an acoustic band based in Nashville, and you're shopping for an engineer. So naturally, you go overseas to get the guy who engineered the Sex Pistols and hasn't worked in 10 years!

    Krauss is some kind of genius, no doubt.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    Rain
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/26 09:08:27 (permalink)
    NIN - The Fragile. 
    Usually the first thing I put on when I have to get used to new monitors or a new environment. Particularly the first cut, Somewhat Damaged. It covers so much range, from delicate acoustic to over the top electronic noises. Gives me a good global perspective.


    Then, the following which are more targeted at specific types of sounds.

    Heavy stuff:
    Tool - Aenima.
    Marilyn Manson - The Golden Age of Grotesque.
    Metallica - Black Album (not that I am fond of it, but I just know it like the back of my hand - not a target as much as a diagnosis tool)

    Rock:
    Soundgarden - Superunknown. 
    The Tea Party - Splendor Solis (for Led Zeppelin sort of guitar tones and drums).
    STP - Tiny Music
    Lenny Kravitz - Circus (classic guitar tones) 
    Them Crooked Vultures - (great bad tones).

    Other:
    Arthur H - Trouble-Fête. 
    Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon



    post edited by Rain - 2011/11/26 09:12:11

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    Tony S
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/11/26 13:45:57 (permalink)

    Manu Dibango - Wakafrika.

    I like the over-all sound of this album. 

    I like Manu Katche's syncopation and time keeping (drums), and

    also the bass-as-a-lead-riff ( Francis M'Bappe) on "Em'ma", as well as the quality of the musicianship in general.


    There's also an obscure Brit guitarist named Mark somebody....Kanoffler, or Kanopler  or sumthin' like that,
    who did an album called  "Brothers In Arms" once, which I thought was well produced.

     I thought he played OK guitar and all that, but of course he ain't no Yngwe or Slash or such. Didn't do much shredding at all....

    Bitflipper:

    YES to Union Station.

    Tony





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    tfbattag
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/12/25 16:22:02 (permalink)
    Very true. I haven't pulled out the Dire Straits catalog in quite some time. Being a three piece, there's a lot of room to catch some of the details. Great suggestions.
    Tony S


    Manu Dibango - Wakafrika.

    I like the over-all sound of this album. 

    I like Manu Katche's syncopation and time keeping (drums), and

    also the bass-as-a-lead-riff ( Francis M'Bappe) on "Em'ma", as well as the quality of the musicianship in general.


    There's also an obscure Brit guitarist named Mark somebody....Kanoffler, or Kanopler  or sumthin' like that,
    who did an album called  "Brothers In Arms" once, which I thought was well produced.

    I thought he played OK guitar and all that, but of course he ain't no Yngwe or Slash or such. Didn't do much shredding at all....

    Bitflipper:

    YES to Union Station.

    Tony



    Thomas Battaglia
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    Jeff Evans
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    Re:References for great sounds 2011/12/25 19:02:06 (permalink)
    For some sheer epic mixes check out Steey Dan's 'Two Against Nature' and 'Everything Must Go"




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