Reflection Filters.

Not sure which forum category this falls into so why not post it in the busiest one?

Are any of you using a reflection filter for your vocal recording?
If so do they actually work?

I have an untreated space and was looking at a few and noticed that they range from $100-$400.

I've read some nice reviews on THIS ONE and was wondering if there really is that much of a difference to warrant spending the extra money.


Thanks.


Mike 

Absolutely. In an untreated room or recording space, it's essential for clean vocals. 
What PageC said.

There's also the Portable Vocal Booth from RealTraps...
http://www.digifreq.com/d..req/deals.asp#RealTraps

Scott

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Excellent.
My Sweetwater rep said that sE rep was in last week and did a demo using all the 'Reflection Filters' that they (Sweetwater) offer.

Hands down he said the sE was by far the best sounding.

Joe - Thanks for the heads up.

Scott - I checked out RealTraps. I like the size and options for multiple uses. 
            I only found one problem.
I was looking at the mic set up and below the specs it said this " Neumann microphone not included" 

WTH Scott, $300 and no free Neumann? Sheesh!  


Thanks all for your replies.


Mike

Just my 2 cents, I have the SE reflection filter as well and it works great. As mentioned up-thread it is quite heavy. I have a 25 lb barbell at the base of my boom stand to keep it from tipping.

chefmike8888

I have a 25 lb barbell at the base of my boom stand to keep it from tipping.

Excellent idea.


Mike

Until you stub your toe on it. Good way to perfect a Black Metal Death Growl.

chefmike8888


Not sure which forum category this falls into so why not post it in the busiest one?

Are any of you using a reflection filter for your vocal recording?
If so do they actually work?

I have an untreated space and was looking at a few and noticed that they range from $100-$400.

I've read some nice reviews on THIS ONE and was wondering if there really is that much of a difference to warrant spending the extra money.


Thanks.


Mike 

Hi Mike,
 
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say things that will probably make everyone in this thread hate me. But I just have to share the experience.
 
First off, before you buy anything else, you seriously need to come hang out with me. I think we can put a lot of these myths to bed once and for all.
 
Secondly, I've never noticed a major difference in these reflection things when you have a good enough mic to capture "the core" of your vocal tone. I mean seriously....when we are doing close mic'ing, how much room are you really getting in the mic? You've seen some of my videos and heard my voice. That mic prints exactly what you hear and there are no room issues to worry about.
 
We can do so many cool tricks with impules if you need a "reflective" sound or an ambience. I mean seriously bro, how screwed up could your room be to where you would need something like this? I could see if it sounded like a bathroom or something...or the little room or office had some reflective tones. But even there, at a close mic position, you are not going to hear that stuff unless you solo up the track....and even there, I sincerely do NOT believe it will be anything that will ruin a track or be heard with the rest of the music. Sure, it may be a little more direct sounding....but don't we WANT a little breathing on our vocals anyway so they don't sound like a dude with a voice like God doing radio ads?
 
I've recorded in so many different rooms using so many different mic's....no room I have ever used caused a problem for vocals to where the track was un-useable due to room reflections. I just personally think this is another one of those hype situations for the most part, but could really be useful in a situation where a room MAY have an impact. But still...think about what sort of room would have to be involved to do that. Mark my words...you buy this thing and the improvement will NOT be worth $300.
 
Use that $300 to drive up and come see me and hang for a weekend. I promise you'll get more out of it than the admission price. :) Don't get me wrong, it's awesome for up close and intimate vocals and you will hear a difference. Just not a $300 difference in my humble opinion. I like the natural sound of a room while choosing the right mic for the vocalist and allowing things to materialize as they will. But do what you think is best and try it brother. A helpful tool in certain situations, but definitely not a necessity for me. I have two of them at my studio....we rarely use them these days because we like the sound of our vocal room in all its glory better. Sometimes we even track people in the control room which gives them a different sound of course...but that's the beauty of it...the room itself....flaws and all. :)
 
-Danny

Danny Danzi

Hi Mike,
 
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say things that will probably make everyone in this thread hate me. 

I hate you Danny! 

cryophonik

Danny Danzi

Hi Mike,

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say things that will probably make everyone in this thread hate me. 

I hate you Danny! 

You so do not! Even if that smile wasn't there, I'd not buy into it cryo! LOL! :) You lub me...even when you may not agree with me. Hahahaha!
 
-Danny

If you sing with any kind of involvement you will be turning the mic pre gain way down too so then although you may be activating the room you still won't hear it either because of the fact your mic gain has just been dropped considerably. The louder the singer the better it could also be argued.

Your daughter did not make a good recording in her room obviously Paul P. She was standing way too far back and had the gain cranked up and that is why it was what it was in the end. If it was a 58 she should have been touching the mic with her lips. If it was a decent condenser than she should have had a pop filter set up an inch from the mic and she should have been an inch from the pop filter. No room then left.

I recently recorded a pop band completely live and the vocalist did the tracks live. I had a PA blasting in the room as well! She was up very close to a 58 ie touching it. Got a fab vocal track with virtually zero spill on it. 

I gather Paul P that she was using a 58. The thing about 58's are they are live PA vocal mics first and foremost. They work really well when you are literally on top of them ie touching them. They have lousy sensitivity so as soon as you start to back off ie like she may have done eg even a foot or so you get virtually no signal out of them so then you have to crank the gain to get the record level back up to a decent level. Problem then is that you are picking up lots of room at the same time. 

I have that filter and it's not that effective by itself because you still have to deal with ceiling and floor bounce in a small space. In conjunction with some other treatment it can be useful but it is no replacement for a vocal booth. If you need to reject reflections from one direction only, then it does its job. Money spent on this can get you:

A DBX 160x
A Voiceworks Plus unit
A used TC electronics verb/delay
Dinner for 9 at the Cheesecake factory.

joeb1cannoli


  Make sure that you have a strong mic stand. The SE is heavy. There is tip from Sound on Sound on setting it up differently from SE's instructions. This method helps it to balance on the stand better.

+1
 
My room sound sucks, I would have a hard time doing any vocals without my reflection filter.  Not to mention VO work

I've had the original Reflexion Filter for years and years, and to me it totally does what it says on the tin. But it is very expensive considering that with a little effort, you can get the same result using heavy blankets or similar. However, it's looks cool and is quick to set up. It's also very convenient for bringing with you to location recordings. 

My room is well damped in the mid/highs, but the filter does tighten up the sound considerably without causing an overdamped, voice-in-the-head, type of sound. So in my room, I don't use any extra blankets/duvets when recording vocals. 

If I was starting over, I would probably get one of the cheaper, lighter products though. 


Sven

Here's the version I bought bundled with the SE X1 mic and the SoS review.

For my needs it's a perfect and tidy solution.  It doesnt have the weight issues of the other one.  It still cost me about £150 but for me it was worth it. 

Of course there are other free alternatives blankets etc, but for those that don't have the luxury of being able to spend a lot of money on hi end preamps and Mics, it's a great alternative.

http://www.soundonsound.c.../articles/x1bundle.htm