Remember when you were young?

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ward s
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2015/01/29 17:52:42 (permalink)

Remember when you were young?

I found a couple of old tapes I made back in 1989 and 1990 on a tascam 4-track cassette machine. I also had an 8-bit Ibanez reverb rack and a little Mesa Boogie practice amp. As an exercise in futility, I figured I'd try loading them into Sonar and play around with them. Since they are 4-track tapes and I could only find a stereo cassette player, I had to transfer tracks 1 and 2 forwards, then flip the tape and transfer tracks 3 and 4 backwards. Then in Sonar, I reversed 3 and 4 (back to forwards) and synchronized the lot of them using a magnifying glass and some silk thread. Then I tempo mapped and tossed in some drums and bass. 
 
At this point, the guitars are all set in stone. I can't back them off any. But how can I get better clarity between the kick and the bass? Any other suggestions are welcome. 
 
https://soundcloud.com/wardcheese/what-it-was

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    Wookiee
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    Re: Remember when you were young? 2015/01/31 11:26:53 (permalink)
    Interesting experiment.
     
    As for clarity between kick and Bass.  Surgical EQ, not sure what you are using as a DAW but if you can listen or use a spectrum analyser like SPAN (Free by the way) and look for where the kick and the bass overlap/interfere then using a very narrow Q cut on the Bass in the two places the Kick will be overpowered by the Bass.  The thump/weight is going to be around the 70 to 95 Hz mark and the slap is around 3 to 5 Khz depending on your kick.

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Remember when you were young? 2015/01/31 13:26:19 (permalink)
    I've done similar experiments, although in my case I had the luxury of 4-track open-reel tapes and was able to track down my old 3340S and borrow it back temporarily. Results were mixed. In most cases, I just stole my original melodies and chord progressions and re-recorded the whole thing.
     
    Surgical EQ, like Wookie says, is the first stop. One trick is to clone a track that has multiple instruments on it and separate them using equalization. It doesn't have to be just HP on one and LP on the other. Complementary EQ with multiple bands can isolate instruments that might at first seem inextricably intertwined. I have managed to separate individual drums from a full drum track, generate MIDI from them and then reconstitute the whole thing using samples.
     
    I prefer a dynamic EQ for these things, as it can be much more transparent. Set gain reduction on the fundamental for the snare, for example, and you can greatly reduce it without affecting other things on the track. The ringing and the decay from the snares will be partly masked, so you may only need to attenuate the first couple of milliseconds.
     
    If the track is drums + bass, a fast-acting compressor with a filtered sidechain can be used to hide the kick. Fast attack, fast release, and dial in the sidechain filter to the kick's fundamental. This will attenuate the initial kick hit but only sacrifice a small portion of the bass' attack, which probably won't be noticed after you've replaced the original kick with samples.
     
    Try a gate, multi-band gate or multi-band compressor on the over-reverbed guitar. I once pulled this off with surprising ease and efficacy using a plugin from Wave Arts called Multidynamics5. If I were doing it today, I'd probably go for Meldaproductions' MMultibandDynamics plugin. It's a do-all multi-band gate/comp/expander. Wait for it to go on sale, though, as it's kinda spendy at $185. 
     
    Noise reduction is best handled by an audio editor, not EQ. I use Adobe Audition 3 for this, which works quite well as long as you have some lead-in to provide a snippit of pure noise as a reference.
     
    Have fun!
     
     


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    #3
    ward s
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    Re: Remember when you were young? 2015/02/01 01:03:54 (permalink)
    Thanks for the suggestions, guys.
     
    Wookiee, I installed SCAN and did the EQ surgery, and it helped quite a bit. Good enough for my amateur ears, at least.
     
    Bitflipper, luckily I had added the bass and drums in Sonar, so I already had them in seperate tracks and didn't need to worry about separating them. Lucky thing, because I would have had to strain my brain bad to get to the kind of work you are describing! But I do have some other old recordings with a 1980s vintage drum machine doing the percussion, and I may well end up following your advice and picking them apart. 
     
    Again, thanks for the help.

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    Larry Jones
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    Re: Remember when you were young? 2015/02/01 01:48:43 (permalink)
    If you have X2, you have R-Mix, and you can try Noel Barthwick's methods for resurrecting old tracks.
     
    I have tried stuff like this, and I'm with bitflipper: In the end I re-recorded.

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    evadianepug
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    Re: Remember when you were young? 2015/02/01 11:33:18 (permalink)
    It is a bit cluttered or indistinct to me.  Of course I understand why.  I have some old tracks that I took from cassette to Sonar and they were less than satisfying.  My thought on this would be to re record it all in sonar.  Seems to be stuff that could be redone and probably better.  Just a thought.  

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    ward s
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    Re: Remember when you were young? 2015/02/01 15:07:53 (permalink)
    I get the consensus, that to re-record would be ideal, but it doesn't really work in my situation. In the 30+ years since I recorded these my body has fallen apart and I really can't do much of anything on the guitar anymore. My hands just don't work. That's why these old recordings have meaning for me. I don't have any illusions that I'll be able to make them sound like much more than they are, but I'd like to get them to a point where I can listen to them. 
     
    A lot of my reasons for getting Sonar was thinking I could try building music in little bricks instead of playing through entire tracks at once. These old tapes are sort of a side-job, a fringe project. I reckon this one is as good as it will get now. 
     
    Thanks again, all. 

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    #7
    drma173
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    Re: Remember when you were young? 2015/02/01 15:54:23 (permalink)
    I think he needs to make the the snare more stand out that all. but great work man
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    Bert Guy
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    Re: Remember when you were young? 2015/03/08 17:53:55 (permalink)
    Ward,
    I have found BBE sonic maximizer to be very helpful in clarifying old recordings. I have always been impressed by how much you can boost the bass with BBE.
     
    Here is an example of an unbelievably muddy recording (drenched in reverb as it was) that was cleaned up using BBE. Unfortunately, I can't find the before version. http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=5265795&q=hi&newref=1  BTW, this is an honest to God CAKEWALK 1.0 project.
     
    Cheers,
    Bert

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