Reverbs

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Dave King
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2014/01/20 18:32:17 (permalink)

Reverbs

Hey there,
 
I'm working on a project and trying to keep things simple by limiting the number of reverbs and spatial effects.
 
What is your go-to room reverb to add a little a space to most of the tracks of your mix?  I'm leaning towards the Breverb Medium Hall as a starting point.  Good idea?
 
Any suggestions?
 
Thanks!

Dave King
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#1

29 Replies Related Threads

    John
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/20 19:08:43 (permalink)
    I hate reverbs! There are too many of them and its so hard to pick just the right one. 
     
     
    For rooms I like to use a convolution reverb such as Perfect Space. OK I know its old and out of date. None the less it works well. But if you must have a good shinny new 64 bit one Melda has one that works nicely and is not so costly.  
     
    Caution! Using too many in a mix can be a real problem. You wind up with a muddy and indistinct mess.  

    Best
    John
    #2
    rebel007
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/20 19:17:36 (permalink)
    I absolutely love Perfect Space. Tried lots of other reverbs but I keep going back to the Real Spaces presets and work from there.

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    Lynn
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/20 19:19:02 (permalink)
    John
    I hate reverbs! There are too many of them and its so hard to pick just the right one. 
     
     
    For rooms I like to use a convolution reverb such as Perfect Space. OK I know its old and out of date. None the less it works well. But if you must have a good shinny new 64 bit one Melda has one that works nicely and is not so costly.  
     
    Caution! Using too many in a mix can be a real problem. You wind up with a muddy and indistinct mess.  


    LOL!  John is absolutely correct, although the right amount of reverb can be exactly what the doctor ordered.  Breverb is a good starting point.  Put it on a bus, group all elements of the mix that need reverb and send them to that bus rather than add them individually to tracks.  Not all elements in a mix need the same exact reverb.  Some things need long tails and some things need shorter tails.  Often, I'll use a short delay for a lead vocal or instrument and a light reverb for backup  vocals or accompanying instruments.  Variation can make it sound more realistic and less muddy.

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    #4
    Sidroe
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/20 19:22:08 (permalink)
    I tend to think of reverb as I would the space that all the musicians would be in if they were recording in one room altogether. When you go to a concert hall, auditorium, stadium, etc. you are experiencing hearing the entire group of musicians in that environment. Due to the placement, the instruments closer to you may be drier sounding than the musicians farther away. The reverb becomes a realtime blender of dry and wet.
    Some instruments may be using reverb or delay as a special effect but overall the entire group is in that one environment and should be treated so. I am not a big fan of using a different reverb on every track. As stated before, that technique can destroy a great mix simply because it doesn't sound natural and good luck trying to match the texture on all those rooms. Try just one reverb for a room on the instruments in a buss routing different amounts of each instrument to that room and another buss setup for vocal reverb possibly. This technique to me tends to sound more natural.

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    #5
    lawajava
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/20 19:24:24 (permalink)
    Dave King and John - I agree with both of you.   I often start with Breverb Medium Hall and may end up keeping it. But there are lots to choose from and many of them can add to or ruin what is being worked on.  My go to reverbs include Breverb2, two of the Valhalla verbs, and Softube's TSAR-1.

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    #6
    gswitz
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/20 19:26:18 (permalink)
    Sure. I like Breverb.
     
    It's light weight and nice.
     
    If you're only using one, don't forget Perfect Space. It's 32 bit, but sounds awesome.
     
    The Blue Tubes has one too that I've used on three or four recordings so far.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #7
    Dave King
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/20 19:38:14 (permalink)
    Thanks for the tips guys.  Like Lynn said, my objective is to create a space in which it sounds like all the parts are performing within.  Nothing heavy-handed.  Perhaps it's more of a blending effect than anything.  And as is often the case, less is more.
     
    I think I'll set up Breverb on a buss and send varying amounts of it to the various tracks. For Lead vocal, I will probably also add a little delay as well.
     
    But of course, I'll experiment with my other reverb options as well.
     
    These days, I'm trying to work within Sonar as much as possible using as few outside resources as possible.
     
    Thanks.

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    #8
    gswitz
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/20 19:52:14 (permalink)
    I little delay on a reverb is a great thing. If memory serves, Craig Anderton has some advice about using delay with reverbs where you set the interval to different prime numbers in the left and right channels.
     
    RME's digicheck for the UCX and UFX have both reverb and delay on the only internal FX Bus in the unit, so they totally see applying delay after reverb as practical.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #9
    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/21 08:13:21 (permalink)
    I see the consensus here seems to be the Breverb.  I don't have it. Although I do have 3 or 4 others....I actually like and use the Cakewalk Studioverb2 on just about all my projects.
     
    I load a dark hall or a bright hall and tweeze it as needed. It's my GO-TO reverb.

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    #10
    AT
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/21 09:54:35 (permalink)
    Dave,
     
    it sounds like you need to use delays on tracks and then shunt everything through a room reverb.  Perfect Space is the perfect choice for rooms, once you flesh out the impulse choices.  Lots of good ones on the net.
     
    Breverb is a great reverb, and I've got the softube one which is really nice.  But the real problem w/ most reverbs is that they ain't subtle enough.  To get a room feel you usually have to knock down the mix ratio to 20-30%.  Most reverbs come in at more than that - breverb has the reverb level at 100% and the mix at 50/50.  I don't blame the revberb designers - they want to show off their glorious work, but unless you are doing pyschedelia it is too thick.  The old standby technique of backing off the level of change until you can't hear it, then add a touch back, usually works for me.  Esp. for reverb.
     
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    #11
    mmorgan
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/21 09:56:32 (permalink)
    Native Instruments RC24 and RC48. They are all I use anymore.
     
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    #12
    gigasonar
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/21 10:07:09 (permalink)
    Guitarhacker
    I see the consensus here seems to be the Breverb.  I don't have it. Although I do have 3 or 4 others....I actually like and use the Cakewalk Studioverb2 on just about all my projects.
     
    I load a dark hall or a bright hall and tweeze it as needed. It's my GO-TO reverb.




    It's bummer that Studioverb2 won't work in Sonar X3 64bit!
    #13
    musicroom
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/21 10:16:00 (permalink)
    I tend to like in order: TC M40, Valhalla Rm, Breverb and the trusty but always surprising Sonitus Reverb. I used to rely on perfect space a lot and can't say anything really negative about that fine verb. I guess I naturally want to stay away from anything that introduces more latency. Although I can't say I have any major gripes there, it might just be a leftover learning from the old SIR days that has me steering away from convolution verbs. I really haven't A/B tested it against the verbs I turn to, so this is more of a feeling at this point.
     
    BTW - when I was using sonar 32 bit only, I used cakewalk's fxverb somewhere on every project. The plate verb I used (preset from the old Jonas template) was/is my favorite vocal bus verb!! I can get close to that sound with the other verbs mentioned, but still not the exact sound. My hope for that dx plug to ever see vst status has long passed.

     
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    #14
    Jyri T.
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/21 10:24:23 (permalink)
    I've used a lot of Perfect Space. Lately I've added Breverb and FXpansion Bloom (which combines other effects to reverb) to my toolbox.
     
    With bloom you can, e.g., do first a short ping-pong delay, set the mix for 80% wet, saturate and chorus it and run it trough reverb.
    #15
    Dave King
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/21 10:37:47 (permalink)
    Yes, good point AT.  I wound up using Breverb with good results as a Send.  And I made sure to set the Reverb at 100% and the Dry signal to 0%.  This results in minimal change to the overall level of the individual tracks.
     
    Thanks.

    Dave King
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    #16
    SubSonic
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/21 11:17:41 (permalink)
    Reverb (and delay) are great effects. For one, reverb takes the sound "out of your face" and gives it some depth, and width too if you want it.
     
    As for plugin reverbs, I like Breverb a fair amount - but it's new to me and I haven't done anything but play with some of its presets. I personally use a hardware reverb unit, the Lexicon MX300 - and I use it as a hardware plugin in SONAR. All that said, my goto factory patch on my Lexicon is called "Tuned Room" (patch #44 if you have a similar Lex unit). It's a great way to get away from the ultra-dry/in-your-face sound of most non-effected tracks and put them into an almost studio tracking room situation where they can sound way more natural. Just like you cannot have your eye an inch away from anything and see it all, your ears need some distance from a sound to "hear" it all, IMHO.
     
    I don't always leave any reverb on every track, but I certainly use it 99% of the time to hear the "whole sound" by moving it away from me (again, getting it out of my face, so to speak) while I am tracking, to make sure the whole sound is doing what I want it to do. I mean almost EVERY room produces some reverb naturally, so I like to hear sounds in that environment at least once during the process to make sure it is a believable sound in a real world environment - and not what it would sound like in a room with pounds of sound deadening on every surface, which is very unnatural to the human ear. Super dry is great for recording (so you can then effect it anyway you want without "hearing the room" too), but is otherwise very unnatural to the ear.
     
    So long story short, I'd start with some smaller than a Hall, and go from there. As I said, I like to start with a Room of some sort - just to get the sound out in the open a little bit so it can be heard from top to bottom & side to side.
    #17
    bitflipper
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/21 11:43:31 (permalink)
    My default reverb on an ambiance bus is ValhallaRoom with the LV-426 algorithm and Medium Hall preset. It's a good general-purpose starting point to begin tweaking from.
     
    However, whenever I pull up an old pre-Valhalla project I'm often surprised at how good the reverb sounds, and it's usually PerfectSpace. Especially on instrumentals and vocal ballads where the reverb is upfront.
     
    (Off the topic, but for special effects, I like to mix it up: StudioVerb2, Valhalla UberMod, Sonitus Reverb, Toraverb and PerfectSpace all find places. Even the oft-maligned Pantheon has its uses. And believe it or not, PerfectSpace can give you great weird effects with the right IR and modulation. For long, lush Vangelis-type synth pads it's always ValhallaRoom.)


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    #18
    Dave King
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/21 16:34:35 (permalink)
    I forgot to mention when using the Breverb, I started with the Medium Hall preset and made adjustments.  One was dialing back the length of the reverb down to 1 second to keep it short and sweet and avoid a mushy mix.

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    #19
    paulo
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/21 17:06:00 (permalink)
    gigasonar
     
     
    It's bummer that Studioverb2 won't work in Sonar X3 64bit!




     Agreed - used to use that all the time
    #20
    michaelhanson
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/22 19:28:13 (permalink)
    I just recently purchased Valhalla Verb and used it exclusively on my last song in the forums. I am really liking this reverb. Before that, I was using Breverb quite a bit. I have always really liked Perfect Space as well, but it seems to be very resource hungry.

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    #21
    Splat
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/23 17:18:43 (permalink)

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    mixmkr
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/23 18:02:53 (permalink)
    You guys are all so conservative.  you're supposed to get your mix wet enough, you can wash your clothes in it
     
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    #23
    musichoo
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/23 22:27:58 (permalink)
    I like sonitus reverb on vocal, Breverb on drums, and Perfect Space on Piano solo. Recently I bought Breeze for my piano solo composition. I decided on Breeze after demo another 4-5 reverb.

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    #24
    dcumpian
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/24 10:11:30 (permalink)
    My go to for drums is Perfectspace. For everything else, I use delays or the Lexicon reverbs. I finally bought them a year or so ago and I don't regret it at all.
     
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    #25
    bandso
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/25 04:18:40 (permalink)
    I'm suprised that no one has mentioned the IK multimedia reverb suite. Good stuff! Believe it or not the reverbs in EZmix2's drum room presets are outstanding as well.

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    tbosco
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/25 10:49:02 (permalink)
    I must be in the minority.... I just do not like Breverb.  All the reverb tails sound like the gated reverbs of the 80's to me...not nearly as natural sounding as the old Lexicon Pantheon or PerfectSpace. 

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    #27
    DRanck
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/25 13:07:23 (permalink)
    Ditto on Vahalla Room, especially the LV-426 reverbs if you are looking ambient washes. I also like Revereberate from LiquidSonics.
     
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    #28
    WVought
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/25 20:46:39 (permalink)
    Here's an interesting article by Mike Senior on the topic of reverb:
     
    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul08/articles/reverb1.htm
     
     

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    #29
    jimusic
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    Re: Reverbs 2014/01/25 21:42:55 (permalink)
    AT
    ...The old standby technique of backing off the level of change until you can't hear it, then add a touch back, usually works for me.  Esp. for reverb...
     @

     
    +1
    = My approach as well.



     
     
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