Reviews/tips for soft synths (and effects) which come with Sonar?

My SONAR Power book goes through the effects and synths included with SONAR. There are entire chapters devoted to each topic. The current edition is available in the Cakewalk store.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://www.garrigus.com/
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://www.proaudiotutor.com/
* Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/
* Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

I tried pro channel on some vocals today (and I have some good plugs and get good results on songs), and I was impressed by the warmth I could get by tweeking it on a vocal bus for lead and a bus for backrounds.

+1 on Z3ta & Rapture.
Z3ta can be used as an fx as well as a VSTi....

I have Sonar X1 Power about a foot away from me.  It does a good job with explaining how to use the synths and effects, but doesn't seem to get very subjective.

What I'm after is suggestions about which synths and effects work well with certain genres, which ones are redundant, which ones are high or low quality, which are easy or hard to use, etc.  The goal is to reduce the amount of time spent learning synths/effects which are a dead end.

For example, does the Square I synth have anything to offer a bluegrass  musician, or would learning it and going through all the Square I presets be a waste of time?

The "official" argument would be that every synth/effect is potentially useful for any genre, limited only by your creative prowess...

...but the "human" argument would be that if you're making bluegrass or other realistic-sounding music, you can safely ignore Square I (and z3ta) and instead focus on Dimension Pro.

Scott, do you have any "human" recommendations in regards to synths and effects for genres that tend to sound realistic rather than synthy/electronic (e.g., old-school bluegrass)?

stick to the basics like EQ, compression, delay, and reverb.

My Sonar 8.5.3 has several options for each of these. 

EQ:
- Cakewalk | 2-band EQ
- Cakewalk | Para Q
- Cakewalk |  Parametric EQ
- Sonitus:fx | Equalizer
- Linear EQ (LP64_EQ_64)

Compression:
- Cakewalk | Compressor/Gate
- Cakewalk | FX Compressor/Gate
- Sonitus:fx | Compressor
- Linear Compressor (LP-64_Multiband_64)

Delay:
- Cakewalk | Delay/Echo (Mono)
- Cakewalk | Tempo Delay
- Sonitus:fx | Delay

Reverb:
- Cakewalk | Reverb
- Cakewalk | Reverb (Mono)
- Sonitus:fx | Reverb
- Perfect Space

(Note: I might have missed some)

What I'd like to know is which of these are the best sounding and easiest to use, and which ones could safely be ignored. 

I could, by trial and error, go through every preset in every effect, testing with different instruments, and decide for myself which ones are "better" for me.  However, I've only started getting into soft synths and effects within the past couple months, and suspect that this sort of work has been done before, by people with more time and better ears than me!

Well, there's two small problems with the broadness of your question. The first you address yourself, you CAN do nearly anything with the effects if you spend the time becoming knowledgable about them.

Two, the corollary, you can't get out of doing your homework. If you wanna use Square I on a bluegrass track, go ahead and do it! Asking everyone on the forum for their own subjective experience with every effect in SONAR is a laughably boundless question. Not to mention, it's impossible to have a right or wrong answer to it.

You just gotta start putting your hands on some knobs and doing some basic research into the science behind them. If it turns out you gravitate towards the Sonitus compressor (for example) over something else, then that's your thing. What effects, effects chains, and techniques you end up using are part of what your personal style and workflow are. There's not really a substitute for that.

Of course that said, I'll attempt a brief answer at your question. The Sonitus stuff tends to be very clean and neutral sounding, very good for the basic bread and butter stuff. The reverb is quite underrated if you ask me. 

Cake's stuff is pretty good, the all-in-one suites are better than I thought but I still sometimes run into limitations by having fewer parameters to control. I tend to use the Pro-Channel, VX-64, PX-64, and whatnot for demos and quick adjustments...but I'm also surprised at how often I don't go back and replace them with more complex effects routings. 

The instruments....well DimPro and Rapture seem to end up on nearly every track I do. The session instruments suite is way better than I thought, Session Drummer has two stellar kits in it I turn to often...tho I wish they had a UI to edit things like chokes and layers.

But....try them. Our opinions are worth about as much as a dream in a bucket. 

Tripecac

stick to the basics like EQ, compression, delay, and reverb.

My Sonar 8.5.3 has several options for each of these. 

EQ:
- Cakewalk | 2-band EQ
- Cakewalk | Para Q
- Cakewalk |  Parametric EQ
- Sonitus:fx | Equalizer
- Linear EQ (LP64_EQ_64)

Compression:
- Cakewalk | Compressor/Gate
- Cakewalk | FX Compressor/Gate
- Sonitus:fx | Compressor
- Linear Compressor (LP-64_Multiband_64)

Delay:
- Cakewalk | Delay/Echo (Mono)
- Cakewalk | Tempo Delay
- Sonitus:fx | Delay

Reverb:
- Cakewalk | Reverb
- Cakewalk | Reverb (Mono)
- Sonitus:fx | Reverb
- Perfect Space

(Note: I might have missed some)

What I'd like to know is which of these are the best sounding and easiest to use, and which ones could safely be ignored. 

use the sonitus and perfect space. ignore the others, until you don't want to.

that's an opinion.

I could, by trial and error, go through every preset in every effect, testing with different instruments, and decide for myself which ones are "better" for me.  However, I've only started getting into soft synths and effects within the past couple months, and suspect that this sort of work has been done before, by people with more time and better ears than me!

Even so, you owe it to yourself to check out, explore the possibilities and decide for yourself what sounds "best" to your ears, and what fits into your methodology and musical genre/style.

If you have only just started then there's a long, hard and fabulously rewarding road ahead of you - and you will be educating your ears as part of the process.

Here's a current thread on KVR about Rapture.

Did you check out the book I linked above? I've only thumbed through it, but it looked like a pretty good introduction.

I made one layout by type of effect and another by brand.  If I know what I'm looking for brand is usually quicker for me to find but I like type if I'm just trying different comps, delays, verbs,etc on a track

I've ditched all the earlier Cakewalk stuff and just keep Sonitus, Perfect Space and the Timeworks EQ and Comp. I have kept the LP64 stuff although I don't use it a lot, well I kept the EQ, Comp and Transient Designer I never found a useful setting on the saturation distortion thing so that's gone. I've also ditched most of the P5 stuff that got brought in with S8.5 I think I've only kept the modfilter.

My plugin list is relatively sparse in places (although it's grown a bit recently thanks to Bootsy and all the great toys he makes!) and I keep them organised by general type: EQ, Compression, Saturation / Distortion, Reverb, Delay, Modulation, Gates and De-essers.

As for the synths I always install them but I don't do a lot of stuff that demands them so they are more just there for tinkering, if I had to get rid of them all but 2 I'd keep DimPro and Z3ta as between them I'd feel I had as many bases as possible covered.

Child

Thanks for the info!

I'm not actually making bluegrass, but I am trying to make music which sounds like real (non-electronic) bands.  The music I like most is early post-punk (e.g., Joy Division, Fall, early Cure), reggae, and afrobeat. 

The two synth packages I have are the ones that came with Sonar (and Project 5), and the ones that came with Komplete 7 (which includes Kontakt).

I'm pretty happy with the drum sounds in Abbey Road 60s/80s and Session Drummer 3, although I'm sure in a year or two I'll bit itching for more variety.

Kontakt doesn't have many realistic bass sounds, but I can augment those with ones in Dimension Pro.

I've got tons of good-sounding piano and organ sounds, so I'm not worried about them. 

Right now I'm having trouble getting guitar sounds I like.  Kontakt has disappointingly few guitar sounds.  Guitar Rig helps, but it's kind of cumbersome to use from within Sonar (since it's 32-bit and requires Bit Bridge).

I'm also a bit frustrated that Kontakt doesn't include banjo and other semi-common instruments.  It's not that I want to use banjo in many songs; I just expect after paying hundreds of dollars for Komplete 7 that I'd have at least as many [real-sounding] instruments as in my Triton.  That doesn't seem to be the case.

So I'm hunting through the other synths trying to find realistic-sounding patches.  Z3ta, while interesting in its sonic variety, is ultimately too electronic-sounding for regular use in my songs.  RXP seems to be for playing other people's loops, which I'm not really into.  Rapture seems a little redundant with Dimension Pro but maybe I'm missing something.

So I'd love to read someone's review of each of the synths (and perhaps plugins) included in Sonar.  It would be particularly useful if the review was slanted toward making real-sounding music rather than electronic stuff.

I share your interest in organic sounds. I am not opposed to using Z3ta+, and do so, but it's always in a supporting, textural role, with sounds that could conceivably exist in the real world.

Of the bundled synths, only Dimension Pro and TTS-1 have much to offer along these lines. Pentagon, Rapture and Z3ta+ are all very capable, but they are best suited for electronic stuff.

Third-party sample libraries are probably your best bet. If that sale on SampleTank/Sonic Synth is still on, grab it. It's nowhere near the quality of most newer Kontakt-based libraries, but the bang:buck ratio is still very high.

What kinds of sounds do you need to fill out your palette? Since you have Kontakt, that opens up a world of possibilities, many of which are inexpensive or even free.

Tripecac


I've been exploring the various synths and effects that come with Sonar, and am noticing lots of redundancy. 

Is there a page or forum post somewhere which describes each soft synth (and/or effect) which comes with Sonar, along with its practical applications? 

I'm after subjective information, not official marketing quotes.

Thanks!

Hi Trip...,

I skimmed through the thread and decided to reply to your OP but I am taking into account the entire thread. I did only skim though so sorry if I repeat something and or missed something.

The first thing I want to say is... some folks can make extremely real sounding instruments using semi outdated samples while others fail miserably using very expensive 3rd party libraries. How you use something is VERY important when it comes to realism.

You will find, quite often, that layering sounds leads to MUCH more realistic mixes then relying on one specific library. Also, use presets as a starting point not a final sound unless you are confident that is the sound you are after. Don't settle for a preset sound. If you think it sounds too 80s, it probably does... BUT you can alter it with MANY techniques. There are many popular songs that use the 808 kick, but they have altered it's sound considerably and they have given it a modern twist in the process of altering it.

Also your comment about Kontakt not having real sounding basses I would argue with, in most genres of music. I use the classic bass very often. I do use a real bass too, but about 50% of my best recordings are with that classic bass. I run it through GTRrig4 Bass Pro and make a few tweaks to fit the particular song I am working on of course. Always BE SURE you are using the instrument in a realistic manner. A quantized MIDI bass track with velocities all the same does not make for a readily realistic bass sound. I have found that making the MIDI bass track sloppy enough that I need to add a limiter or compressor makes for a much more realistic bass track. I am not saying to make it sound like the band should have fired that bass player, but if the bass line sounds too perfect you won't fool anyone that matters.

Also... GTRrig4 is 64bit. You must not have the proper directory set in the "plugin manager". GTRrig4 64bit (on my system) installed itself into... C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\Komplete 6\VSTPlugins 64 bit... OR you didn't instal the 64 bit version.

I would presume yours is located in the same directory only change komplete 6 to 7.

I have found Dim Pro to be a good source for secondary sounds when building a song. But, IF you do not tweak and or blend them... they can sound pretty blah and thus, at best, only be good for backing sounds in a modern environment. If you learn to thicken and alter sounds to suite your vision... pretty much ANY decent softhsynth will do. So... redundancy is truly in the eye of the beholder... IF you have a vision... knowing what is in your toolbox and knowing how to use it is the ONLY way to fulfill that vision.

Are some softhsynths better than others? Of course... I'll take ANY 3rd party drum software with a round robin style of using samples over a superior sounding, yet inferior realistic one any day. No matter how good a snare drum sounds... if it is the same sample being used when doing a max velocity roll... it will sound fake and have the machine gun effect. I can easily alter the sound of a snare drum to suite my needs, but it's a LOT more work to TRY to make it sound real IF the softhsynth is using the same sample at the same velocity. Anti machine gun and or Round Robin is AWESOME!! Any sothware using it is far superior to one not using it. IF going for realistic sounding instruments that is.

In essence, I am telling you to learn all the software you own... it is the ONLY way you will know what to replace according to YOUR needs. Granted.. if you told me you wanted to break into Film/TV doing orchestral work. I would tell you that the included K4 VSL samples are not up to par on their own. You would need to add in some sounds from Dim Pro to add more texture and realism.

IF you are planning to use a Solo violin in a song. IF you have to use a sample then you need to be able to play it on your controller and play it in such a way that it really sounds like you are playing a real violin. IF you can do this then you can alter the sound through MANY different avenues to make it richer if need be. IF you can't play it on your controller (keyboard) then you better know how to fake it by using key switches, velocity changes, Mod wheel and or expression pedals. Is this simple? Heck no... but a $1000+ string library would force you to learn the same things as your included VSL library in K4. Sure the more expensive library will take less work to make it sound real. Especially if it incorporates a round robin. But you will still need to change articulations, velocities, expressions, etc...

Engineers in million dollar studios often spend time coming up with new sounds and or twists on old sounds. Many engineers will have all the revisions of a particular unit because they will use the differences in them at different times. So does a "Revision b" make a "revision a" redundant? Not in professional engineers opinions so that says something right there.

Take the time, sit down and play with your new toys, find what you like and don't like. What you can alter using compression, EQ, etc... to alter it to become something you do like for your style. Write down the ones that stand out to you as "inspirational" (meaning, you feel inspired by that sound to write a new song). Those would be the most important to you... obviously.

I could go on and on... seriously, but I think I said enough to get you down the right path,

Good Luck in all you do,

Rob

I have to say that I use Sonitus GATE, Sonitus Compressor, and Sonitus EQ.  I have used a lot of Boost 11 but as I get away from using boost 11 alot, I find that I have a lot of headroom to get better blends. Nowadays Boost 11 is one of the last things I do in the master mix.

Now that I am getting used to Sonar X1...x1b in my case, I use the prochannel a lot but I can't seem to get away from sonitus's effects.  I really like the compressor compared to the prochannel compressor.  Sonitus is just that tight.

I have also found a new effect that I have been playing with... Cakewalk's HF Exciter.  I have been setting it up on it's own bus and doing sends from the tracks that I want to tweak a little.  This effect is great with GUITARS... Especially acoustics.

Dimension Pro is my go to synth for the organic sounds.  The strings and brass sounds are very good.  I have used the TTS for the same sounds but the dim pro has such a lush sound... that the tts sounds like a generic keyboard you can buy at walmart at christmas.

Vintage Channel has a sweeeeeeeeeeet "master mix" setting... I use it... regularly

hope this helps