A couple of points.  In the realm of popular music the Beatles first introduced many of the styles and forms of music into pop idiom that we take for granted now.  At a certain point in one's development (or mine and many of the musician's I know) it is common to slag the Beatles.  And their early stuff is too saccarine for my tastes.  But then most of us realize what they did for pop - and rock and roll.  They expanded it and I don't know of any other band that could have done that.  It might have happened over time, but not in 5-6 years.  A personal observation is that George Martin had a lot to do with it, esp. the ability to handle the orchestration of their later music.  Basically in 1964 you had pop like "love me do" that might be fun to sing along to but leaves you hungry, and straight ahead rock and roll.  The Beatles opened up everything else and threw it into the mix.  And made it popular, even tape-based sampling.  "Number 9" by anyone else wouldn't have gotten a listen except for a couple of acedemic types.

Another thing it is easy to forget is how good their rock and roll instincts were - which is what they get slagged on about.  Not their rocking, but the alledged lack of it.  But their last live shows are pure addrenlin - loud noise right up there w/ the stones etc.  It is interesting to watch ... stet that ... listen to the video.

@

All this talk of the Beatles........love to look back......I remember playing their LP's over and over and over .......and over.....and over........

Some of it I loved....some I hated but I always played it......

the only bad memory I have which has really nothing to do with them actually but a divorce tatic by the ex was she took one of my early LP's ( On Capitol records) layed it down on the floor and did the twist on it till it was just one big scuff mark.........

Of course there was nothing I could do at that moment ......the guys with the guns and badges with the motorola's seen to that...............................

But like they say....every dog has it's day!!!!!!!!!!    



Arf......arf....... and I'm still smiling!
 
 
 
and I still enjoy living alone..............
Clifford 

Deserves more credit? : Well he is the drummer for the most popular band of the 20th and going into the 21st century: and he's a multi-millionare probably several times over because of his credit. I never met the guy but even I know his name: I bet over a billion people can associate his name with his accomplishments. Naw.... he's doing ok.

strikinglyhandsome1


'Beethoven wasn't even the greatest composer in his house' according to Mozart

I know this was several pages ago but this is funny!

I think he's a standard bearer... and he was an equal partner in a band of genius's in my opinion. I give him all the credit he could handle, but then I'm a piss-ant and he's...well .. you know ......RINGO - and he was the coolest Beatles cartoon character of the by far... so take that SIR MR McARTNEY ! There I said it...someone had to.

Jones,

Looks like you dug up an old and interesting thread.  I remember reading this one back in June and I never got around to putting in a comment. 

You basically added what I have read about Ringo.  He was left handed, played a right handed kit or set up, and because of that, approached his drumming a little differently.  I have also read that he used the Toms more than other drummers might.  When I listen to a song like, "Come Together", or "Something", there is a lot of fabulous Tom work going on there.  In Come Together, they seem to be used almost like a snare in parts.  As you have mentioned, and Danny above, he played to the song and what the song required.  I would add that he changed up his playing through parts of the song, so that verse sections, bridge sections and chorus sections had more of a distinction between them. 

How good was he?  Well he was good enough for the Beatles.  George Martin requested him and sold John and Paul on the idea.  Even after the group broke up in 69-70, the members still wanted him on there solo records. 

Ringo's drum solo at the end of side 2, Abbey Road is still one of my favorites ever, by any drummer.  I never get tired of hearing that drum solo followed by Paul's bass solo.  From what I have read, he refused to do a drum solo and had to be eventually talked into it.  He hated drum solos.

  Thanks MakeShift...I will check your cloud

John


I always thought Ringo to be one of the good guys. A great drummer and he didn't have his ego hitting others in the face.

George was also a good guy. John and Paul not so much.

As to the Beatles having more influence than Beethoven that is a very incorrect statement. If anything Beethoven had influence over them and not the other way around. He is responsible for the the romantic movement in music. One would be hard pressed to say the Beatles changed music to the the degree Beethoven did.

Heck a lot of the Beatles music can be traced back to Beethoven. Structure, themes and chords are in many ways traceable to their use in the Beatles work directly to Beethoven.

Beethoven never gets the respect he deserves from rock and roll musicians. LOL

Anyone that made that statement hasn't listened to Beethoven enough.  

I agree that almost all music up to about 1980 has its roots in Beethoven, in fact if you have listened to enough music going back to the Baroque period you will find links and sign posts that connect our great western classical tradition together.  So it sort of maps like this:
 
First there is Vivaldi, this leads into Bach, Mozart refines these two compositional ideas and techniques and then expands them.  Beethoven takes all three of these ideas, and the two styles: Baroque and Classical and expands them again into the romantic era.  This is why Beethoven could be considered the greatest composer up to Lennon/McCartney and G.Martin (don't forget that it's Martin that takes the rough edges of The Beatles and combines it with Beethoven). 
 
After Beethoven music fractures into the eastern European composers, Tchaikovsky, Musorky but the difference between Beethoven and the eastern European composers whilst they do expand their compositional technique, they don't do so as much as Beethoven ie: Beethoven takes three musical ideas and builds a forth of his own.  So Beethoven still remains number 1.
 
Just after the eastern European composers, comes the songwriters ie Debussy who this time combines the sounds of the industrial revolution into a more compact musical form, the song! of course he still wrote classical music but you could hear the changes in his music to Beethoven.  But Beethoven is still no1.
 
Then comes Wagner and the Neo Classical movement but Wagner is really a Beethoven wanabe and didn't really add anything to the great western classical tradition.
 
At this point music fractures into many different styles and the song over the sonata becomes the dominant  musical form.
 
Now my point is The Beatles/George Martin are perhaps the most important composers since Beethoven because they take three  or 4 different musical forms and styles and meld them into one: The Beatles.
 
The other point to remember and this is another reason why you can't say Beethoven is better than The Beatles is both were products of the cultural landscape that they inhabited.  Beethoven was apart of the great revolutions of Europe which was The Romantic era and it was Beethoven's music that was the sound track to that era.  And again The Beatles were the soundtrack to an equally turbulent era.  Which we understand to be the birth of the modern world.
 
Now here is where it gets tricky and perhaps this is where you are getting the idea that Beethoven is superior to The Beatles.  In 1980 the world changed, musically.  We moved away from a melodic based musical form and structure to beat based, most music today triumphs beat over melody.  So The Beatles today have less of an impact and lasted less time than Beethoven's musical impact.  This may not have been the case, though had Lennon lived because whilst McCartney was the more talented, it was Lennon that drove Beatles ie: he was the creative brains, Mc was the creative heart.
 
As for Ringo I always maintained he was  great drummer, proof listen to Strawberry Fields and Ticket to Ride.  Superlative!!
 
Ben  

On the early songs and the old live gigs, Ringo hit his drums HARD!  More so than any other drummer at that time.  That hard hitting style really boosted the Beatles songs into a driving beat that made a huge difference in their style.  

How many songs do you hear the ride cymbal crashing away?  Look how he played his hi-hat!  He brought a whole new feel to pop songs.  I grew up listening to him and admire him still.  

Rock on Ringo!

Rimshot

Jim,

Pete Best did n't quit the group, he was kicked out of the group. 

Kev999,

I was recently reading a new Beatles Biography called Lennon, by Tim Riley (I believe) and I recall it going into more detail on the subject of Pete Best and being replaced by Ringo.  I am in Vegas for 3 weeks on business, so I can't look up that particular chapter.  This I do know, because I just looked it up from several sources on the net.  The Beatles had auditioned for Decca Records and were turned down.  Five months later, they got an audition with Parlophone Records (EMI) with producer George Martin.  Martin recorded 4 songs with the group and afterwords told their manager, Brian Epstien that he would sign a contract with them, with one condition, they use a better drummer.  Martin felt like the drumming was not a solid enough beat and that a rock band needed a solid drummer for that genre of music.  John and Paul, decided that Epstien would be elected to tell Best, he was out.  They knew Ringo from their Hamburg days and always felt that he was a "professional" drummer. 

Yes, Martin wanted to use a session drummer for the next set of recordings; that was common practice in those days.  They had a session drummer do some of the takes and they had Ringo try some of the takes for those songs.  In the end, George chose the Ringo track for the release because he thought it was better.  Ringo was in. 

And yes, he was the best cartoon character.  

Hey Michael, I am reading the same book and I am right at the end. It is an amazing book and I am sure you found it incredible. I certainly learned a lot about the Beatles and John himself. I think it is a very accurate book. I have a lot of respect for those who have read all that detail. It has taken me a while to get through it. I have been listening to the music too. It is very cool to play the tracks as soon as they start referencing them in the book. 

You are spot on with your info about Ringo's first session. There was a connection with him and their time in Germany. He was related to one of the venue owners I think. 

Ringo changed around a lot of the drumming that Pete Best played in Germany. Ringo got much busier and involved the toms in the same spots that Pete Best laid back. John and Paul liked the way the songs changed as a result I think. Pete was a good player too.

I have got another book called 'The Complete Beatles Chronicle' by Mark Lewisohn. It details all their live gigs, appearances and recording sessions. I think the recording sessions are based on George Martin's notes. They did a LOT of live playing.

...Jim,  Pete Best did n't quit the group, he was kicked out of the group...  


Oh...I've only ever heard that he had quit. 


Because the common belief is that he was a better drummer than Ringo, [although that may not have mattered in the greater scheme of things.]

strikinglyhandsome1


Nowadays they would use EzDrummer - Vintage Kit  (for awesome subtleness) 

No...... Waves Factory's Tea Towel Drums.
 
edit - just realised I replied to an 11 month old post