s_barber
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/20 14:58:15
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ORIGINAL: mark s
ORIGINAL: UnderTow
ORIGINAL: mark s
Perhaps he was pointing out he could find resistance from one end of the same conductor to the other end with an ohmmeter
That is how I read it (and I can't see any other way to read "Try an Ohmeter on that cable. It should read very, very close to zero, yet not absolute zero."). Are you sure you got his point? 
UnderTow
I am well aware of what was written. Perhaps I was being too subtle for some to follow with a brief technical comment.
I'll put it this way for more clarity:
Perhaps he WAS pointing out he could find simple resistance from one end of the same conductor to the other end with an ohmmeter but the CONTEXT of the post was of a DISCUSSION about impedance and reactance in cables which is measured across the the dielectric material of the insulator in the cable and not the simple resistance which is measured down the length of one conductor: and which we all should know, for all practical purposes except in very long lengths, is near zero in it's resistance.
These, simple resistance vs. reactance or impedance, are not the same PHENOMENON and, my point was impedance or reactance cannot be measured with an ohmmeter: which was what was being insinuated in the original post.
Hope that helps to clarify it for you
Ohms Law comes out the same no matter how you slice it up or define it. My reply was to the question if a 75 ohm cable actually had 75 ohms resistance and wanted to clarify. Maybe it is best to approach this kind of subject without spewing out too many technical terms that requires an electronics degree to understand. I think most people here are looking for the practical application rather than a lot of theory. B.T.W. I taught electronics at a technical college for 8 years.
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bitflipper
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/20 17:07:04
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Jeez, I leave for a few days and when I come back not only is this thread still alive, but has branched off into a discussion of Ohm's Law. Yow.
"Ohms Law comes out the same no matter how you slice it up or define it."
Eh? I thought George Simon Ohm did a pretty good job of defining it already! Are we really arguing about Ohm's Law, or did I miss a page?
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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plectrumpusher
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/20 19:58:22
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Repeat the word "ohm" whilst meditating. Only then will the secrets of the electron-universe be revealed to you .
If you haven't got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart.......Then you are just an old sour fart!!
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bitflipper
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/20 21:21:25
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"Ohm" is so 60's. I chant "Fourier".
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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John
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/20 21:24:22
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"Ohm" is so 60's. I chant "Fourier". Some how its just not the same, Bit.
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 07:36:15
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Bit, do you find that is a faster way to transcendental transformation? Furry A baby. best, mike edit: spelling
post edited by mike_mccue - 2008/05/21 07:37:38
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s_barber
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 10:24:12
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ORIGINAL: bitflipper
Jeez, I leave for a few days and when I come back not only is this thread still alive, but has branched off into a discussion of Ohm's Law. Yow.
"Ohms Law comes out the same no matter how you slice it up or define it."
Eh? I thought George Simon Ohm did a pretty good job of defining it already! Are we really arguing about Ohm's Law, or did I miss a page?
It drifted to cable quality as it relates to sound quality then went to someone asking if a 75 Ohm cable had 75 Ohms in it, I answered that and before you know it there is blah, blah and blah, blah. And....as I'm sure you are aware....laws that apply to electricity and electonics directly correlate to the laws of physics and ultimately to the acoustical reproduction of what we call music.
Listem Here. My web site http://www.lamejohnnycreek.com/. Dell Laptop, 1 GB, 160 GB FW, EMU 1616M, M-Audio 88, Sonar 6 PE, Ozone, CD Arc, EZ, Dim, Dahlia Violin, G & L Guitar.
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 10:28:18
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hey Steve,
don't be afriad to get to technical...
We can take it :-)
best,
mike
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s_barber
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 12:41:38
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ORIGINAL: mike_mccue
hey Steve,
don't be afriad to get to technical...
We can take it :-)
best,
mike
Are you sure? Like Jack Nicholson said in the movie "A Few Good Men" most people can't handle the truth.
Listem Here. My web site http://www.lamejohnnycreek.com/. Dell Laptop, 1 GB, 160 GB FW, EMU 1616M, M-Audio 88, Sonar 6 PE, Ozone, CD Arc, EZ, Dim, Dahlia Violin, G & L Guitar.
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 13:20:03
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Jack might have been right... but it never stopped me from blabbering all over the place. :-)
best,
mike
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twisted6s
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 13:35:34
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WOW!!! Lots of info from alot of intelligent folks in this thread. There was some stuff about plugins for mastering, cable capacitance, dynamic convolution, and even ohms law. This is all very cool stuff. But I believe that good music can be made many different ways even when sonic integrity has not always been maintaned. Brothers, don't worry about the quality of those plugins or the cost of those cables or some "experts" opinions on how things should be done or how things should sound. Experiment with what you have, have fun with your resources. Make great melodies, write cool lyrics, make funky beats and don't be afraid of getting it "wrong". That's what the erase button is for. Don't forget: musical beauty is in the ear of the beholder.
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s_barber
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 13:35:59
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ORIGINAL: mike_mccue
Jack might have been right... but it never stopped me from blabbering all over the place. :-)
best,
mike
And sometimes it's just easier to make up something everyone can believe.
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 13:50:19
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Steve,
“All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.†... Galelio
“Life is not meant to be easy, my child; but take courage -- it can be delightful.†George Benard Shaw
those guys didn't even see the movie :-)
Twisted, I'm with you... give me a cardboard box, and a guit-box with a couple strings... maybe a comb and some wax paper. Let's jam.
best,
mike
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bitflipper
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 14:28:13
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And sometimes it's just easier to make up something everyone can believe. Reality is just the illusion we all agree upon.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 14:33:23
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I disagree
structurally of course
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guitartrek
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 19:49:00
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ORIGINAL: John
PM me with your Email and I will send it.
John - Thanks for sending me your version. I appreciate you stepping up to the plate. It sounded good - I liked it. It did sound different than the Babicz's version. However, you were starting out with an MP3 which may be limiting. On my system Babicz's version was louder. I was going to try mastering it myself out of curiosity, but I couldn't import that MP3 into Sonar. Came up with an error message.
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John
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 21:38:16
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homeless
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 21:42:58
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mastering & mixing are so determined by personal taste and bias that nearly anything could be acceptable. yet there seems to be an emergence of some 'guru' every few months and everyone flocks to his door like a bunch of sheep who stand agog and then after they soak it in they realize that he's full of crap, and then move on to the next 'guru.' i guess this chump is the flavor of the month.
after all, you really really really have to be a total bonehead to screw up mixing/mastering, it's just not that difficult. but many people have such low self-efficacy and self-reliance that this parade of bozos will continue forever.
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 22:06:37
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I couldn't have said it better... heck I wouldn't have said it.
But it was refreshing to read.
THANKS,
best,
mike
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droddey
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 22:58:48
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after all, you really really really have to be a total bonehead to screw up mixing/mastering, it's just not that difficult. but many people have such low self-efficacy and self-reliance that this parade of bozos will continue forever. While I think that anyone with reasonable technical and aesthetic sense can master these skills, I think it's a lot harder than you are making it out to be. It does take a considerable length of time and extensive application of one's self to it to get really good at it. Do you have anything of yours that you could put forward as an example?
post edited by droddey - 2008/05/21 23:19:40
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 23:10:21
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All it takes is practice, practice, practice... and that's a lot harder when your sitting around thinking and talking instead of doing.
But that's just my personal opinion.
The request for an example is ridiculous... what does that have to do with it?
It's about each individual being confident in what they do. It's not about seeking the approval of others.
If what you do is enjoyed by others you get compensated well... but that has nothing to do with artistic validity.
The ONLY reason for a request like that is if you are considering hiring the person and trying to determine if their style is suitable for your immediate needs.
very best regards,
mike
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bilbosblues
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 23:21:07
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ORIGINAL: bitflipper
Jeez, I leave for a few days and when I come back not only is this thread still alive, but has branched off into a discussion of Ohm's Law. Yow.
" likewise Dave, let's "stick a fork in I'm done" oh mercy!
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bilbosblues
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/21 23:23:10
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ORIGINAL: twisted6s
WOW!!! Lots of info from alot of intelligent folks in this thread. There was some stuff about plugins for mastering, cable capacitance, dynamic convolution, and even ohms law. This is all very cool stuff. But I believe that good music can be made many different ways even when sonic integrity has not always been maintaned. Brothers, don't worry about the quality of those plugins or the cost of those cables or some "experts" opinions on how things should be done or how things should sound. Experiment with what you have, have fun with your resources. Make great melodies, write cool lyrics, make funky beats and don't be afraid of getting it "wrong". That's what the erase button is for. Don't forget: musical beauty is in the ear of the beholder.
nice positive post Tony 
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/22 07:00:08
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 Yeah, Except for a few people absolutely refusing to comprehend the 75ohm impedance rating on video cabling and connections... It's been a real full featured thread :-)
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UnderTow
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/22 15:12:43
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I finally got round to listening to the that track that Mr Babicz mastered. I am not very impressed. To me it sounds small, lacks stereo, lacks bass, has too much mid, the upper highs are completely gone and it is all distorted from the get go.
I expect some distortion when trying to achieve these modern loud levels but the way Mr Babicz achieves it (removing all the subs and highs) should allow him to achieve much cleaner results. Also I do not feel the mastering does the original mix much justice. The mix has changed too much.
UnderTow
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John
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/22 15:28:08
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After all is said and done I and Undertow both took on this little project and I have to say that Undertow did a great job on the material. What this proves is that just about everything the video is saying is wrong. What is most evident is that a decent system on a lowly computer can do just as good a job as our mastering guru. I wouldn't have bothered with this except some how I saw this as a challenge to the rest of us. A kind of "you guys don't know anything" type of attitude. In doing this we have shown that his views are clearly archaic He is living in the past. All that neat gear he has is best soled and he should take the proceeds and get a good comp.  BTW I don't think we spent much time on it either. For me its not my kind of music. I will still maintain that a really good mix will not need much mastering to sound good. In that case mastering should be simply for the media it will be placed on. It shouldn't be a fix for a bad mix.
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ru
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/22 15:40:28
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ORIGINAL: John
I will still maintain that a really good mix will not need much mastering to sound good. In that case mastering should be simply for the media it will be placed on.
the evidence for this is in the fact that you never used to hear much of anything about mastering. maybe it's due to the wider range of media/playback systems.
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plectrumpusher
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/22 15:50:28
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One of the M.E's who gets lots of notiriety , Bob Katz said it best in his book . A great master begins with a great mix Given the fact that so many folks are going " do it yourself" and mixing in less that great environments , the buisness for Mastering has morphed into Repairing and then , if there is any time left , polish !!! What do you guys think of Stems and/or seperations ??? Seems like a decent concept when you consider th aforementions challenges in mix environment. This guy is a proponent.......(slightly) Seperation mastering Time for the ol thread to morph again !!!!! (ohm, ohm, ohm!_)
If you haven't got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart.......Then you are just an old sour fart!!
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UnderTow
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/22 15:57:22
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ORIGINAL: plectrumpusher
What do you guys think of Stems and/or seperations ???
It can certainly work. I think it is usually a financial compromise. If the budget is available, get the mix done by a great mix engineer. If the budget is really small, at least get some professional mastering. Somewhere in the middle lays stem "mastering". Whatever works for the music within the time and budget constraints. UnderTow
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UnderTow
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RE: Robert Babicz on mastering
2008/05/22 16:05:29
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ORIGINAL: ru
the evidence for this is in the fact that you never used to hear much of anything about mastering.
maybe it's due to the wider range of media/playback systems.
I don't know. I the past, due to the very real limitations of vinyl, everything was mastered. I would say a smaller percentage of released music is professionally mastered today compared to yesteryear. Of course today's mastering could be done in a anything from a million dollar studio to a kid's bedroom with equipment ranging from millions to cracked software. UnderTow
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