Helpful ReplyRock Song : Find My Way Home

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Axiology
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2018/06/12 03:50:20 (permalink)

Rock Song : Find My Way Home

One of 14 tunes I've been working on to send out for mastering for CD, etc.
My stuff is muchly influenced by Rock music from the late 60's - mid 70's.
I think I've got this mix about as good as it can be, but I don't know anyone else with the critical listening skills for a second opinion.
So I would appreciate some opinions on the mix, especially from those with professional experience, if you would be so kind to spare the time to listen.

https://axiology.bandcamp../track/find-my-way-home

Thanks

http://axiology.bandcamp.com
#1
montezuma
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Re: Rock Song : Find My Way Home 2018/06/12 11:56:33 (permalink)
I feel like the rhythm guitars are a bit prominent....and to be honest, the guitars in general. The drums are a bit swamped by the guitars. I like the idea of the song and see what you are going for but the instrumentation isn't quite there...sounds like it could use some great 50's style piano chords maybe supporting the rhythm. It has that late 50's kind of rhythm. So, let's say, tone down the guitars..they are doing too much heavy lifting. Open it up with piano perhaps on the left, a simple guitar accompaniment on the right, the licks off to a side. It's crying out for back up vocals too. 
#2
Wayfarer
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Re: Rock Song : Find My Way Home 2018/06/12 13:31:32 (permalink)
A really nice tune Ax man. I'd bring up the drums and vocals though. (Vocals aren't that soft now, but if you bring up the drums they will be.)
 
Bill
#3
SupaReels Music
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Re: Rock Song : Find My Way Home 2018/06/12 18:02:46 (permalink)
I've listened to a lot of your work and agree with the others on this. You have (IMO) a really good set of songs that remind me of early Santana in places, and I loved their sound.
My input, I would do a remix taking time for placement of individual instruments etc, so that your vocal stands out on it's own but sorta 'in the mix', that might not sound so muddy on the final mixdown?
That said your work is really good, so looking forward to the upcoming album !
 
Steve 
#4
Axiology
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Re: Rock Song : Find My Way Home 2018/06/13 05:02:04 (permalink)
Thanks guys for your input, though I don't think I'm going to make any drastic changes. This tune is one which I've fought with more than others to get it right. I don't want louder drums in the verses, the high hat and snare are where I want them to be there, in terms of volume, but they are a bit obscured by everything else in the choruses, and perhaps bridge.
I will probably bring the guitars down a bit in the choruses to let the drums come through a bit more.

I prefer the song without chorus harmonies, I've experimented with that, as I do with most of my songs and usually end up leaving them out of my mixes. In fact of the 12 vocal tunes of the 14 total, only 2 have harmony vocals.
Maybe I'll try a bit of piano rhythm - just in the choruses, no way do I want it in the verses.

Steve, as far as " placement of individual instruments" I've gone with the tried and true mix method of having instruments either 100% left, 100% right or dead centre for most instruments, with their respective reverbs being on the opposite sides. So all my mixes have rhythm guitar on the left, lead guitar on the right, snare, vocal and bass drum in the centre. Though I have deviated from this with the bass and high-hat, they're about 25-30% to the right - they seem to sit better in the mix his way.
#5
Wayfarer
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Re: Rock Song : Find My Way Home 2018/06/13 14:14:26 (permalink)
Ax man, you have do what works for you. Suggestions are just that. Take them or leave them. Having said that, I'm going to make another one.  There are two reasons good record producers don't mix anything 100% right or left. Number one is that often music gets listened to on just one speaker even in a stereo system. Have you ever walked through a grocery store and noticed they were playing a certain song you knew over the store speakers and that a couple of instruments or background vocals were either gone altogether or extremely low in volume? I spent a good deal of my life as a meat cutter. I remember not having a regular job for more than two years and floating around from store to store filling in for guys who were on vacation etc. and noticing in several different stores that they were just playing one side of a stereo field. It's quite common in all kinds of stores. Store managers don't know anything about electronics and seldom hook music sources into the sound system properly. As long as you don't mix far right or far left, at least some of the content will always get through. The second reason is that extreme panning is unrealistic and also makes things rather thin sounding. When have you ever been to a concert and had musicians playing to the side of you? Even from the first row they're all in front of you. Panning anything more than 75 to 80% is impractical and odd sounding. Sounds thinner too, though I don't know why.
 
Just a thought. Keep on trucking partner.
 
Bill
#6
Axiology
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Re: Rock Song : Find My Way Home 2018/06/15 03:10:44 (permalink)
Bill,
Pardon me, but I think you're not understanding the method here. I believe this mixing method is used far more often than you think, so I'll go over it again in more detail.
The dry signal, for example, of the lead guitar - is panned 100% right. A send from that track is sent to a buss with a reverb in the busses effects bin. The reverb in this buss is set to be entirely wet(none of the dry signal present), and panned 100% left. The opposite is done with the rhythm guitar - dry track panned 100% left, wet rhythm guitar reverb buss panned 100% right.
Because of this the guitar does not sound as if it's panned 100% to one side - only the dry signal is. IMO a very effective way of mixing a 2 guitars, bass and drums recording. All of my 14 recent tunes on my bandcamp site are mixed this way and none of them sound either thin or unnatural.

http://axiology.bandcamp.com
post edited by Axiology - 2018/06/15 03:56:04
#7
Wayfarer
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Re: Rock Song : Find My Way Home 2018/06/15 13:40:51 (permalink)
"All of my 14 recent tunes on my bandcamp site are mixed this way and none of them sound either thin or unnatural."
 
It does to me. We experimented with that back in the 80's and quickly gave it up. To each his own.
#8
Voda La Void
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Re: Rock Song : Find My Way Home 2018/06/15 13:53:21 (permalink)
Ok, don't mean to mess up a good song posting, but since you fellas are talking about this...I've always panned electric guitar tracks full left and right, though double tracked and mostly the same effects, maybe slight difference in EQ or something, or even a different guitar for each side.  But, mostly the same sound, and I think I have them split full like that in everything I've ever done.  
 
Is that bad?  I have played with the panning before, but never liked it as much as that full spread.  
 
On this tune...not really into this style so not fair to comment.  In terms of the mix, I agree with Bill's observations. 

Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
#9
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Re: Rock Song : Find My Way Home 2018/06/15 14:26:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Voda La Void 2018/06/15 14:41:08
No, it's not bad. You won't go to Hell for it. We all like things different. Stereo recordings came out in the 50's, but very few people bought them until FM radio came along and people got used to hearing things in stereo during the early 70's. Up until then it was considered gimmicky. I remember reading where both Elvis and Bing Crosby much preferred mono. The Beatles all said they liked the mono recordings of their albums better than the stereo releases. It's all a matter of what you're used to probably. I imagine that if we all were marooned on an island for a couple of years with nothing but an old Gramophone and a stack of 78's, that when we finally got back to civilization, stereo music would likely sound very strange and even off-putting to us. Personally, I still think everything sounds thicker and richer in mono, but I do pan things slightly to resemble a stereo stage from my perspective of about 3 rows back at a typical concert. Recordings made like that make me feel like I'm at an actual concert. It's just what I like. Of course if you step more than five feet back from the speakers, it all sounds like mono anyway. 
#10
markno999
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Re: Rock Song : Find My Way Home 2018/06/15 18:21:26 (permalink)
Good song and performance.  
 
I agree with the mixing observations above, the guitars are too forward and the vocals and drums too far back.    If you read any of Jeff Evans posts in the Techniques Forum on mixing in mono you will find some real informational jewels.    I initially thought it was dumb, who listens to music in mono, but I found my mixes were actually better when I mixed in mono.   Primarily, your levels stand out in a dramatic way (and so do time based effects) so you can make appropriate changes to them.  Because listening systems are dramatically different, this mono check ensures the mix is going to work on the most broad spectrum of speakers.    When going back to stereo, the sound is better balanced as well.   Just a thought.
 
Regards
#11
ABull
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Re: Rock Song : Find My Way Home 2018/06/15 23:57:52 (permalink)
Hey, good demo of your song...
#12
emeraldsoul
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Re: Rock Song : Find My Way Home 2018/06/16 17:33:20 (permalink)
Song is good, performances are good, vocals are good! 
 
As far as personal panning choices, I understand you pan dry signal to one side 100%, and then put effects on it and that effected signal gets mixed 100% opposite. Close?
 
If you do that same trick with two guitars, switching directions for each, you get the effected signal of one clashing with the dry of the other, and there's a potential for distractions and maybe some mud. I can't listen to your lyrics as clearly as I'd like to, 'cause the guitar parts are sooo wide.
 
However, I think the Beatles did it so what the hell. Can't argue with that, really.
 
The above is just a layman's mix opinion, and is not rooted in professional experience. Any resemblance to actual good advice is purely coincidental.  :)
 
 
thanks
                                                                                                                                                                 for
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It's a good song and it got me thinking!
 
-Tom

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#13
stevec
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Re: Rock Song : Find My Way Home 2018/06/27 20:50:14 (permalink)
Nice late 50s vibe... very authentic.  Although yeah, I could hear some block piano chords on the choruses.
 
Mix-wise not much to add to the above.   The guitars are taking precedence, perhaps both in level and frequency - the vocals and drums almost seem a bit "dull" in comparison.   Thing is, I like the way the guitars sound.  So maybe just reducing their levels a bit would help remove some of the masking.   Personally I would also center the solo a little to sit where the vocals were...
 

SteveC
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#14
Freddy J
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Re: Rock Song : Find My Way Home 2018/06/30 19:24:38 (permalink)
Nice one!  Being an old fossil, I love the retro feel to this number.  This is a good discussion above, so I have nothing to add.  Some different approaches offered and good advise to hear and adapt to your own personal style (if relevant).
#15
SupaReels Music
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Re: Rock Song : Find My Way Home 2018/07/05 18:37:19 (permalink)
Have you heard of an SPL Vitalizer ? ( The outboard one ) Great tool  ... just saying is all ...
 
 
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