Room Treatment - Idea...Thoughts?

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Milamber
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2013/10/06 21:03:03 (permalink)

Room Treatment - Idea...Thoughts?

So, I had some folks from Auralex work up a profile for my home studio and they recommended the ELiTE B24 ProPanels.  I tried to find out as much info on these panels as I could but all I came up with is that they have a noise reduction coefficient (NRC) of .80 per panel.  Each panel is 2'x4'x1".  I then started looking for something that would provide the same level of noise reduction but would cost less.  Sort of a DIY approach.  One of the options I found was a product called Acoustic Blanket Producer's Choice at vocalboothtogo.com.

It appears as if they are using Mass Loaded Vinyl (MLV) sowed between some cloth material.  I was wondering if I could achieve the same effect by creating a wooden frame 2'x4'x 1" and then hanging the MLV in the frame and covering the frame with material?

From what I have read, it appears as if I can gain the same NRC perhaps a little less say NRC = .75 through this method.  I am sure I am missing something here since whenever I try to find a simpler less costly approach to something like this I overlook the obvious stuff.  I'd appreciate any observations you guys might have regarding this since I have only just started to explore my options here.
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    wst3
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    Re: Room Treatment - Idea...Thoughts? 2013/10/06 22:37:58 (permalink)
    I have to ask... what are you trying to accomplish?
     
    MLV is a great tool for isolation or "sound proofing", but it doesn't do a lot for the behavior of sound in the room - well, nothing positive anyway.
     
    (One thing some folks overlook is that if you build your space such that sound can neither ingress or egress that's great for keeping the neighbors happy, but it makes managing the energy in the space all that much more difficult!)
     
    Absorption, diffusion, and reflection are the tools of choice for after the fact room treatment, and geometry and dimensions are the best bet if you can pull it off.
     
    So, what is it you wish to do?

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    #2
    Milamber
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    Re: Room Treatment - Idea...Thoughts? 2013/10/06 23:26:10 (permalink)
    Bill,
     
    I am no expert on acoustic treatments and I am probably relying too much on an outside source but these guys claim to be "professionals" so I am currently trusting Auralex to tell me what I need.  Based on their recommendation for these types of panels I would like to achieve the same acoustic results but at a reduced cost if possible.
     
    Thanks,
     -Ken
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Room Treatment - Idea...Thoughts? 2013/10/07 09:38:04 (permalink)
    We still need to know what you're trying to do.
     
    There are only 2 things you can do, realistically:
     
    You can a) SOUNDPROOF your room so that no sound gets in, & no sound gets out
    or b) you can TREAT your room acoustically so that you achieve better results from tracking/mixing
     
    How many rooms are we talking about here? Will you have a separate room for tacking & mixing? Or like the majority of us, is your studio in a spare bedroom/garage/loft etc?

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    batsbrew
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    Re: Room Treatment - Idea...Thoughts? 2013/10/07 10:16:06 (permalink)
    i use these
     
    http://www.audimutesoundproofing.com/audimute-sound-absorption-sheets-materials-that-absorb-sound-soundproofing-blankets.aspx
     
     
    works very well
     
     
    only MASS will sound proof
     
    a decent compromise for low end treatment is building panels and using rock wool inside...
    build them 4'x8', or if they mount on walls, build them 3'x6'
     
    wood box build, nice fabric over the front
     
    lots of companies sell kits

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Room Treatment - Idea...Thoughts? 2013/10/07 13:02:27 (permalink)
    It sounds like your goal is isolation (the preferred term over "soundproofing"), and I can unequivocally guarantee that those 1" Auralex panels won't do squat for isolation. You're wise to step back and investigate before spending that kind of money.
     
    To prevent sound from going where you don't want it, you need physical mass rather than any kind of foam or fiberglass product. MLV-type products do work, but only because they add mass. They're usually used in conjunction with other measures. And they're not cheap, either.
     
    Are you trying to build an isolation booth for vocals or amplifiers, or to isolate a control room from the live room, or to keep sound from escaping your room, or to keep traffic noise and stuff out?
     
    Can you modify the walls, or does this need to be a non-permanent installation?


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    Milamber
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    Re: Room Treatment - Idea...Thoughts? 2013/10/07 14:54:52 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey - I am trying to treat the room so I can better track and mix.  I have only one room in which to work with and yup it is a spare bedroom.

    bitflipper - No the goal wasn't originally to isolate as stated earlier, as I really don't care about noise leaving the room...although I would rather enjoy (at times) keeping noise out of the room.  I guess I could modify the walls of the room but someday I'd like to be able to sell the place so extensive modifications would probably not be an option.  Although I think any mods I do to the room could be considered permanent if need be.

    I think all of you are asking the right questions and I am glad I came here before doing anything.  I am starting to wonder if the Auralex proposal was incorrectly based on creating isolation rather than tracking.  I state this because the only real redeming value that there recommendation has is a reduction in noise.

    The room is sub-optimal based on my research and that may be why they recommended what they did.  It is about 10' x 11', has a small window and slanted ceilings to a hight of 12'.  Auralex recommended 10 of their B24 ProPanels for the room which in total cost is a little over $1000.
     
    Thanks
     -Ken
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    wst3
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    Re: Room Treatment - Idea...Thoughts? 2013/10/07 16:33:47 (permalink)
    OK, now we know what you are trying to do...
     
    you are likely going to receive a variety of answers, most will probably be at least partly correct, and at least a little helpful...
     
    I'll start with the obvious - hire an acoustician or studio designer who knows how to do what you wish, and has a few scars - I mean experience! In the long run that will be the best, and least expensive solution. There was a time when the folks at Auralex, and some of their competitors, did a darned good job with their recommendations. From what I've heard, that is no longer the case... which is a shame, but given the nature of the marketplace, probably not a huge surprise. They need to sell product to support the service.
     
    If it were me - and I am making a LOT of assumptions here - I'd do the following:
    1) I would do a sound study of some kind, even if it is only leaving a recorder in the room for 24 hours and then looking to see if noise is a problem and when noise is a problem, and if it is a problem what it looks like. At that point you can make an educated choice on whether or not to reinforce the walls to provide some level of isolation (keeping noise out and keeping noise in are pretty darned close to the same thing!)
     
    2) I would try to demonstrate to you that tracking and mixing are two VERY different activities, and that tracking a guitar amplifier is way different than tracking a singer... and that expecting a room of roughly 110 sq ft to do both well will be challenging. I'd also probably try to convince you to focus on mixing, since it is likely you can find other spaces to record...
     
    3) if I won that argument<G> we'd start by finding the optimum location for your ears and some generic set of monitor loudspeakers, or, if you already have monitors that you like we'd use them for the model... then we'd add whatever acoustical treatment is necessary to tame the room from the ideal listening position. The tools available to you are reflection, diffusion, and absorption. Only the last one of those will really help with low frequency problems, but with those dimensions your LF problems may be fairly easy to address.
     
    4) Once we had a good monitoring environment then we could look into setting up environments for tracking different types of sources.
     
    This is one person's approach - and remember what you paid for it... it's worth nothing more<G>!

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Room Treatment - Idea...Thoughts? 2013/10/07 21:22:27 (permalink)
    The problem is Auralex is always going to recommend a solution that involves a thousand dollars' worth of their products. "We only sell hammers, so we're pretty sure your problem is lack of nails."
     
    Spend an afternoon at Ethan Winer's site, realtraps.com. Actually, if you read all the helpful information there it'll take more than one afternoon. But it'll be worth your while! Ethan sells acoustic treatments but he's very generous with his extensive knowledge of acoustics and he'd as soon tell you how to DIY as to sell you some products.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    batsbrew
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    Re: Room Treatment - Idea...Thoughts? 2013/10/07 22:19:09 (permalink)
    audimute.

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    fitzj
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    Re: Room Treatment - Idea...Thoughts? 2013/10/13 10:36:38 (permalink)
    A great solution is Plasterboard  on the walls double layer if possible and staggered  and taped as you then have no joints for the sound to pass through and use Green Glue to stick the plasterboard on. Not a cheap option as Green Glue is expensive but it works.
     
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