Routing question - aux sends

I don't understand why a normal SEND to a BUSS wouldn't work for this.

Why complicate things when they are so easy?

So, the way I would do this is to set up each "pre-delay" on it's own buss, and then direct those busses to the reverb buss. Then I'd SEND from each track to it's appropriate pre-delay buss.
 
However, if I wanted to keep the pre-delay close to each track and not clutter up the buss area (it's a legit requirement in my book) then I'd SEND TO NEW AUX on each of the tracks, then point each of the AUX tracks to the reverb BUSS. Essentially it moves each of the pre-delay busses up into a track.


 

Are you using mono, or stereo tracks? You could try using two mono, use a short delay in one of them to experiment with the Haas effect, for spatial placement, and send both to a reverb bus with its own pre delay.

reginaldStjohn

msmcleod
I don't get how using AUX tracks will result in a different pre-delay on a single reverb?
 
As I understand it, the pre-delay is the delay before the reverb kicks in. Surely this is a property of the reverb plugin itself? I can't see how this could be done without having separate reverb instances, each with their own pre-delaysetting.
 

I think what the original poster is trying to do is delay each track's send to the reverb so that the reverb starts at a slightly different time for each source. If they set a single reverb to have a pre-delay of 0 sec then each source will sound as if it has a different pre-delay. This is one queue to the ear and brain of where the sound source is in relation to the environment..

That's what I suspected.
 
So a reverb pre-delay is the amount of time between the original dry sound, and the audible onset of early reflections and reverb tail. 
 
This to my mind is not delaying the signal, then sending to reverb; it's a period where the reverb effect is muted, then the wet mix appears.
 
To satisfy my curiosity, I set up two busses:
 
BUS D -> Aux 1 [ Sonitus Reverb, Pre-delay of 250ms 100% wet ]  50% send to Aux 1
BUS E -> Aux 2 [Sonitus Delay with Single delay of 250ms (100% wet) -> Sonitus Reverb no pre-delay, 100% wet] 50% send to Aux 2
 
I then got a piano sound and compared the sound to outputting to BUS D vs BUS E.
 
Although the sound was similar, there was one noticeable difference: the piano's attack transients were present in the reverb for BUS E, but not BUS D.
 
This leads me to conclude that the reverb's pre-delay is actually a delay before the reverb wet signal kicks in (i.e. it mutes the effect for the pre-delay time), rather than delaying the signal and applying the reverb.
 
If however, I add another bus / aux, this time with no delay and no pre-delay on the reverb, the reverb tail dies 250ms sooner. So at least in the case of the Sonitus reverb, adding a pre-delay of 250ms extends the effective reverb decay time by 250ms.
 
To prove this, I extended the delay time of the "no pre-delay" reverb by approx 250ms... and all the busses' reverbs then decayed at the same time.
 
So the conclusion is (at least with Sonitus reverb), that delay + reverb is not the same as reverb with pre-delay.
 

Thanks gents - theses are interesting takes on the routing.
Initially, my view was to look at this from the perspective of a stereo pair of mics in the rough center of a reverberate field - what I'm curious about is:
 
1. Whether it remains a one to one relationship on the timing of driving the reverb field.
2. Can you simulate a difference in distance - not by delaying the dry signal - but delaying the reverberant signal.
3. Can filtering ( EQ ) offer ques to distance - purely in respect of the reverbs field. This is where the seperate busses might be the better routing option.
 
I've never really liked the idea of using multiple reverbs. It creates a cluster in my opinion. And the singular pre-delay for entire feed to a reverb does allow cleaning up a mix but interferes with defining depth when applying wet and dry delays to tracks. So, I'm looking to apply delays and panning to set distance and spacial location - but also depth information via pre delay reverb and filtering to help define depth of field.
 
 
 

So, the way I would do this is to set up each "pre-delay" on it's own buss, and then direct those busses to the reverb buss. Then I'd SEND from each track to it's appropriate pre-delay buss.
 
However, if I wanted to keep the pre-delay close to each track and not clutter up the buss area (it's a legit requirement in my book) then I'd SEND TO NEW AUX on each of the tracks, then point each of the AUX tracks to the reverb BUSS. Essentially it moves each of the pre-delay busses up into a track.


 


This was my thought. I wasn't clear on just where to control it from. You articulated it better than I could ask the question.  :)

Well I thought it was worth mentioning as the whole idea behind it is to create 3D soundscapes for immersive sound. I think this is what you're trying to achieve is it not? 
Placing instruments left and right is easy,,, now move it forward or back and things get interesting. 

Try the Sonitus Fx Surround. You may need a surround bus for it.