melvin22
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SAVE ME!! TOUGH QUESTION (INTERLEAVE AND PANNING OF SUB-TRACKS)
This is complex and I've been looking for the answer please...
I can pan any Main Track, any Bus, or Master Bus but CANNOT pan individual sub-tracks which are the (mini tracks) lined up in rebuilt layers or grouped under one MAIN track. Like choral harmonies and many overlapping sounds grouped under one MAIN track. The main track effect bin applies with no issues, effects like compression and reverbs as well as effects directly added to a certain individual sub-track whether its lead vocal or a background harmony you add a chorus effect or a multi-tap delay etc, they all work fine, but when I try to apply a plug in to a sub-track that is to PAN L-R, IT DOES NOT PAN the sub-track. If I have a 4 part harmony and want to put the first one slightly to the left, the second one slightly to the right and the other two spread out a little further etc... I would use a plugin from Waves to pan, or from Nomad Factory PAN, Sony PAN, I tried Cakewalk's many EQ's and Sonitus FX Surround which definitely PANS I know it works I've done it many times in the past but does NOT let me pan subtracks, it just stays dead center 0.0
Now, this is my issue after all the research...
I've opened projects from the past and I realized the INTERLEAVE is set to stereo on some of the tracks and some are set to mono. Although I've always recorded with a mono microphone (left input) creating a centered track NON STEREO, I was still able to pan sub-tracks. When I input one of my mics via XLR to my audio interface (left) input' Sonar automatically adjusts the interleave of that track to mono. Everything records perfectly but individual sub-tracks won't pan.
Once its recorded with the interleave in "mono", it will not pan sub-tracks even if you change the main track to stereo interleave. Remember, I CAN ALWAYS PAN THE WHOLE TRACK OR USE AUTOMATION using either type of interleave, but that would pan everything along with it's sub-tracks; which I don't need in the case of choral harmonies. The issue is with SUB TRACK individual panning with plugins >>
So a half-solution.....
With the mic input the same way (left) creating a solid center track NON-STEREO, but this time record with the interleave set to stereo (which I'd have to manually set since Sonar automatically picks mono Interleave), the mic records a track identical to the one before, but this time, you can use a plugin to pan the sub tracks and they pan individually. The problem with this is that I believe I'm not supposed to record with stereo interleave because I'm using a mono signal (left) into the center of the track, so the plug ins will pan subtracks L and R, but plugins that render chorus and certain stereo imagers or convolution delays/revbs render more to the left speaker... Whether Waves or Nomad Factory, Sony or Cakewalk/Sonitus etc.. and its due to the interleave being recorded in stereo when it should be mono as was chosen by Sonar when I choose input "left"
Sonar already picks the interleave appropriately depending on which option I chose for input of my interface.
If I were to choose stereo input, Sonar would choose interleave stereo but then my track would record newbie style half flat-line and half wave form, obviously only playing to one side.... but thats not my issue since I know how and what to choose, except for this interleave situation which has me confused.
What I want to do is to record in the correct interleave which should be MONO and find a way to PAN SUBTRACKS slightly to the right or left here and there thru the use of PLUGINS that pan, there are many... what do I do??
Someone must have gone thru this, someone must know something>> ?? is my template wrong, I'm I missing something here?
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bitflipper
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Re:SAVE ME!! TOUGH QUESTION (INTERLEAVE AND PANNING OF SUB-TRACKS)
2013/04/13 12:20:26
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Strange things can happen when you use a mono effect on a stereo track or vice versa. Usually, the tipoff is that the sound leans to one side, or can't be panned.
To further complicate matters, a track may convert from mono to stereo or stereo to mono as it's being processed by effects. For example, if you insert the Sonitus Delay into a mono track, its output is stereo and the data stream will be treated as stereo after the delay. Or if you insert a mono effect such as Guitar Rig into a stereo track, its output is mono and the track data will be treated as mono after going through Guitar Rig.
The first step is to confirm whether the recorded audio is mono or stereo (regardless of the track interleave setting), which is easy to determine by looking at the waveform. If you have accidentally recorded a mono source (e.g. a microphone) to a stereo track, select all the clips in that track, right-click and choose "convert to mono". SONAR should automatically set the track interleave to mono.
Most of the time, you'll want the track interleave to match the track data: mono for mono, stereo for stereo. The exception is when you're inserting a stereo effect into a mono track, in which case you may need to change the interleave to stereo in order for the effect to work correctly.
So the second step is to look at each effect in the FX bin and ask yourself if the output is likely to be stereo. Some delays are always stereo out, choruses are stereo out, most reverbs are stereo out, many phasers and flangers are stereo. Amp sims are usually mono out.
Many plugins come in both mono and stereo versions, so you can use them in any situation. But which one you use may depend on what effect precedes it. Some plugins, such as PerfectSpace, have a switch to toggle between mono and stereo on the input side.
Yeh, this can get complicated. If you took a screenshot of the offending tracks we might be able to offer more specific advice.
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melvin22
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Re:SAVE ME!! TOUGH QUESTION (INTERLEAVE AND PANNING OF SUB-TRACKS)
2013/04/13 16:44:13
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Most of the time, you'll want the track interleave to match the track data: mono for mono, stereo for stereo. The exception is when you're inserting a stereo effect into a mono track, in which case you may need to change the interleave to stereo in order for the effect to work correctly. So the second step is to look at each effect in the FX bin and ask yourself if the output is likely to be stereo
Thanks, I want to share images; I will shortly >
How do I know for sure which would be stereo plugin effects, or which definitely require the interleave to be set to stereo? Should the sound made by the stereo plugin be noticeably different or like I've experienced "go to one side"? is that the only symptom to look for?
Well, in Waves many list plugin(x) and the same plugin(x) labeled mono, but not all of them, I guess you only need to select mono on the ones that show both Str & Mno, and that's only if you record anything other the the default mono interleave, I just choose the regular plugin and not the mono version and it works fine, but when I record stereo interleave, then I need the mono plugin, which is contradictory.
MOST IMPORTANT, if I record my voice interleave mono (as Sonar wants me to), I can't pan individual sub-tracks, and if I change the interleave to stereo after already recorded, I still CANT PAN individual tracks. So, from what I've discovered, the interleave that you RECORD the track with has everything to do with it. You have to choose interleave STEREO to actually RECORD the track and then I can use plugins that PAN. (SO ITS NOT ONLY PLAYBACK BUT THE RECORDING FACTOR)
This is eating me alive. I don't remember having these issues in Sonar 6 and 7, I understand I mostly recorded with the default interleave and was able to pan sub-tracks, but I think they used to default to stereo interleave, not sure.
Thanks, I will be sharing some images but I never managed to attach any image here, I don't know how, please tell me how I do this, it needs to be thru a URL? is there a site you use specifically since I don't have a photobucket account or anything like that, anything you recommend I use for sharing images in the forum?
post edited by melvin22 - 2013/04/13 16:47:14
Self-built PC, Windows 7 64, ASUS P8Z68-V, Intel Core i7 3770, 16 GB RAM, SSD Samsumg 840 Series 500GB, 2X 2TB SATA, GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB DDR5, Presonus Audio, M-Audio 8in/8out MidiSport 8X8/s / Edirol 3x.midi, Mbox, Mackie Control Univ. +2 ext= 24 automated faders / Monitors: M-Audio BX8a & Cerwin Vega Ve-15 / KEYS: M-Audio 88key & 61key, Sonar PE 8.5, Reason 5, Sony Pro 9, Waves Mercury, Blue Tubes Bundle, Melodyne 3
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bitflipper
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Re:SAVE ME!! TOUGH QUESTION (INTERLEAVE AND PANNING OF SUB-TRACKS)
2013/04/14 14:57:29
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Don't confuse the track interleave setting to the data you're recording. They're related, but they're two different things. You should be recording your voice in mono, and have the track interleave button set to mono. Most of the time there is neither need nor benefit to changing the track interleave on a vocal track, with a few specific exceptions. If you have the option of using a mono-specific version of an insert effect, do so. Ideally, you'd use only mono effects on a vocal track. Avoid inserting effects with stereo outputs and you'll simplify your life. Things like ping-pong delays and choruses and reverbs should preferably go onto the vocal bus and not on individual tracks. With a mono vocal routed to a stereo bus, you will have no problems with panning. A thought just occurred to me...are you trying to pan the bus? If so, that's a whole 'nother can o' worms. IF you want to post a picture, use ImageShack. You upload your picture to their server, then copy the direct link they provide to paste into your forum post.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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