Helpful ReplySIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control?

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Beepster
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2015/11/20 12:32:25 (permalink)

SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control?

Probably more of a "Hardware" forum question but I know some of you fellows would know what's up.
 
I'm starting to get a little annoyed at my lack of foot control for my sim sounds. Currently my only option really is to play my parts then write in things like sound changes and wah type effects afterward with one of my controllers (keyboard and pad controllers). Not very convenient or cool.
 
So I'm just wondering what controllers I should be keeping an eye out for. Most of the ones I see are behemoths that are total overkill. All I really need is...
 
1-2 mappable on/off pedals that are sturdy and preferably have the feel of Boss type pedals (not MXR button style or those cheesy light touch ones found on most large pedalboards... I want to be able to/have to wail on it and be able to do it without shoes/boots on).
 
1 mappable rocker pedal (something that isn't going to wear out, break or seize up and has the full range of movement/feel of something like a Crybaby would).
 
USB connection (and preferably with MIDI DIN connector as well).
 
In fact if there are single pedal type units that can be used in conjunction like real stompboxes (like a single stomp controller and single rocker controller purchased/hooked up separately or daisy chained somehow) I'd be into that as well.
 
Just not sure what's out there and ya'll would know. I don't like those huge Line6 type pedal boards. I want to feel like I'm mangling my old Boss pedals and a Dunlop rocker. You guit hounds will know what I mean.
 
If such things do NOT exist... seems like a good series of products for Gibson/Tascam to produce now that they're carving into the DAW world. Gibson pedal design does kind of blow (IMO) though... so yanno, ripoff Roland's design, lol. Those buggers just feel good and take a heckuva beating.
 
No urgency. Just want to start scoping what's out there and instead of wasting time chasing wild waterfowl I figured I'd ask you guys.
 
Thanks.
 
Hope everyone is well.
#1
BobF
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/20 12:45:43 (permalink)
I have NOT purchased one YET ... This is the best I've been able to find in my searches
http://www.guitarcenter.c...oller-1275776902479.gc

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Beepster
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/20 13:01:25 (permalink)
Hi, Bob. That's decent looking board but not really what I'm after. If I were going for full on pedalboard action (with onboard effects) I'd be going down the Boss GT series (and I do still want one eventually but maybe the new Line6 one if money tweren't no thang).
 
I just need MIDI foot control to mangle the sims inside the DAW (GR5, TH2, etc). I'd also use it to get some extra expression control over softsynths too since my key and pad controllers are pretty basic in that regard.
 
Think the "RigKontrol" units except scaled down and with more of a traditional feel.
 
Thanks for pointing that board out though. Always like guitar candy to pine over.
 
Cheers.
 
Edit: and that's a "full" pedalboard. I really just want one or two stomps and a single rocker pedal. That way I can do my simple distortion on/off stuff, wah and have MAYBE an extra stomper to engage things like chorus or phase (or switch amps... sh*t like that).
 
I generally don't get too stupid with my my effects as I play so I don't need a half dozen presets at the ready and since I'm mostly in "DAW-la" land these days (not live) I can just do the real finicky crap in post prod.
 
If that makes any sense.
post edited by Beepster - 2015/11/20 13:16:01
#3
BobF
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/20 13:57:07 (permalink)
That is just a MIDI controller ...
 
Value-wise, it may have more buttons than you want, but good luck finding another pure MIDI controller for less!!
And if you do please post back here - I'm interested :)
 
 
 
post edited by BobF - 2015/11/20 14:08:26

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BobF
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/20 14:00:59 (permalink)
BTW, I really enjoy my GT-001, the desktop model.  The GT series has some really great amp & effect sims.  The only reason I don't have an FCB1010 is because I hate stuff around my feet.  I got rid of an RP1000 to get the GT-desktop.  I can't bring myself to turn around and add a foot control board ... THAT would be borderline nutz - LOL!
 
I have the 2-button doodad from BOSS, but no expression pedal
post edited by BobF - 2015/11/20 14:12:46

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#5
Beepster
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/20 14:21:12 (permalink)
BobF
BTW, I really enjoy my GT-001, the desktop model.  The GT series has some really great amp & effect sims.  The only reason I don't have an FCB1010 is because I hate stuff around my feet.  I got rid of an RP1000 to get the GT-desktop.  I can't bring myself to turn around and add a foot control board ... THAT would be borderline nutz - LOL!
 
I have the 2-button doodad from BOSS, but no expression pedal




What's the Boss 2 buttoner? I'd be curious about that.
 
And you hit right on the head with the floor clutter. I really don't like some monstrosity with a bajillion buttons at my feet.
 
1) I'm usually in my wheelchair and if I weren't it would be a rolling office chair so less crap on the floor the better
 
2) I generally play my pedals like my guitar... by feel with my eyes mostly closed so a buttload of pedals just adds extra chaos
 
3) I'm generally in small rooms now (my current room is TINY) and am actually used to only one or two pedals from my live days. Some big old thing I gotta yank out, set up and maneuver around is just a PITA. Simplicity is actually much more preferred.
 
I kind of really only have two settings anyway. Clean/bright and face meltingly distorted. The rocker can deal with any dynamics stuff. More than two sound options is just unnecessary to me. I get why some players want that but it ain't my thing.
 
I expect this thread will garner a few options. Otherwise I'll go chasing some geese and report back what I find.
 
Cheers.
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mettelus
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/20 14:46:11 (permalink)
Not sure how applicable this is to various units, but the all-in-one processing units typically use MIDI internally for the effects switches and pedal. Most of these also have MIDI out, so can run the board without audio output just for the controller aspect. This would need a little research, but older boards are often rugged and inexpensive but may give you the functionality/look you are after.

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Beepster
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/20 15:26:31 (permalink)
Hi, mettelus.
 
Last time I really scouted around (a few years back) it looked like the boards with onboard effects that could communicate with a computer were starting to turn into more of an interface setup as opposed to MIDI controller action. Like you could use the boards as an interface to record the guitar input/guitar effects into a DAW but not control a sim. Then there were the RigKontrol units that had no onboard effects (and IIRC didn't have interface/soundcard functions but I know that has changed) but acted as "dumb" MIDI controllers.
 
I remember getting all excited at the Boss GT-100 because it had the USB connector but it turned out to be more interface with no MIDI control (same as some other units out at the time). I could have been totally misinterpreting the specs (I was still learning the whole DAW spiel back then).
 
I guess I was hoping this need had been filled beyond the massive pedalboards that do MIDI control but maybe not. Perhaps the type of "1-2 button/single rocker" setup for pure MIDI control I'm talking about hasn't passed market research standards to make it viable for production yet.
 
Us guit players with our "BIGGER! MOAR BUTTONZ!!!" crap seems to have overidden the old "couple of stomps and a crybaby through a good amp" setup of yore.
 
lulz... guess I'm just a simple beeps with simple needs...
 
I used to look at the crazy pedalboards dudes in other bands would bring to shows and shake my head. Guess I'm more string/fretcentric than effect/sound spazzy.
 
I usually just had my MT-2 and my TU-2 (tuner) and that was that... or alternatively a Blues Driver instead of the MT-2. I did have to use a Boss Chorus for some very specific cover work but that was for one band only and I was using the amp distortion from a 5150 (and its crappy channel switch pedal) and really disliked that setup.
 
Anyhoo... I'm a funny dood I guess. Just thought maybe someone had put out some more moderate controllers by now. I'll take a look around... or wait a few more years.
 
Cheers.
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mettelus
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/20 15:44:27 (permalink)
I hear ya. The point for "interface" is valid, so something with a USB out only would not be good. I have 2 older boards with D-pin MIDI outs on them, and that is what I would look for... a D-pin can only send MIDI, so checking the spec on what maps to that connector would be a next step. There are a few older boxes with just a pedal and a few buttons on them.

I definitely agree with the "bigger/more complex" getting ugly. When I brought my old amp back online, I looked at the handful of knobs and sliders and simply thought "FREEDOM!"
 
Edit: I just did a quick search on things and another thing to beware of is some pedals only have MIDI in (not out). Using google to search sucks because of all of the advertisements, so only points to new gear. The older Digitech units have MIDI out (RP's, GNX's) but some are big. The RP model uses a fruity (i.e. dumb) pedal design that require calibration often, but has nicer switches to stomp. I have not used either of these as a controller, however, but they both have MIDI in/out DIN pairs on them. Most newer pedals do not even have a DIN on them.
post edited by mettelus - 2015/11/20 16:37:45

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Beepster
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/20 16:35:58 (permalink)
I definitely dig the idea of some of those simple "guitar only" interfaces (like the Line 6 Pod thingies and the boards that have direct connect) where you just plug in and go but since I have a full on interface (Scarlett 18i6) it would just be redundant and I'm not going portable.
 
For now I'll keep looking but the current plan I guess will be to record a "dummy" guit track, program in the automation (effects on/off and use dials/faders for wah/volume style effects). Then after I think I've got the effects changes how I want record again playing into/off of the effects. Kind of like having a soundguy/guitar tech controlling it all offstage.
 
It just ain't the same though but will work.
 
Of course playing the part then just tweedling with dials and buttons afterward is the faster route but it ruins the whole "playing INTO the effects" dynamics.
 
I'va also been trying to figure out a way to use my hardware effects (I have a rocker on my Korg AXFX and of course a bunch of stomp boxes) on a track then somehow turn that into automation I can map to plugins. Like frequency tracking/writing but I honestly don't think that could ever work in any useable way.
 
Fun to twist my brain on though. lulz...
 
Cheers, bud.
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BobF
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/20 17:37:44 (permalink)
The 2-button FS I have for the GT is a BOSS FS-6.  I hate that it is powered.  There is no provision for external power, so I made a little slot for a cord from my pedal power supply.  Otherwise, they take 9V batteries.
http://www.bossus.com/products/fs-6/
 
This is NOT a MIDI controller, but is matched to the GT (and other BOSS products).  I have no foot controller for ITB sims like Guitar Rig.
 
I have several options for MIDI controllers, but none I want to put under my feet.
 
 

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tlw
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/20 23:09:28 (permalink)
The M-Audio expression pedal is pretty decent. Looks flimsy but is actually lretty solid so long as not abused. No buttons but it might be useful as a wah controller.

No MIDI on, just a TRS jack that connects to the "expression" input most keyboard MIDI controllers have. I've a couple of them, the oldest came with an EHX HOG years ago and has stood up to quite a bit of use.

As for footswitches, Tech21 MIDI Moose (not Mouse) might be worth a look.

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Beepster
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/21 13:13:18 (permalink)
tlw
The M-Audio expression pedal is pretty decent. Looks flimsy but is actually lretty solid so long as not abused. No buttons but it might be useful as a wah controller.

No MIDI on, just a TRS jack that connects to the "expression" input most keyboard MIDI controllers have. I've a couple of them, the oldest came with an EHX HOG years ago and has stood up to quite a bit of use.

As for footswitches, Tech21 MIDI Moose (not Mouse) might be worth a look.



hmm... this gave me an idea (at least for a stomp pedal).
 
My Korg padKontrol shipped with a generic "expression" pedal (TRS). It's just a simple stomper that I use for single kick action with my drum programs. It should work for changing patches/triggering stuff inside a sim (it's just a MIDI message).
 
However it of course needs to run through the padKontrol (which is fine... not ideal like a USB or DIN controller that avoids the intermediary device). I am also uncertain how much control over HOW that signal can be configured within Sonar or on the pK itself (like if it's a momentary switch or if I can set it up to toggle).
 
It certainly does not have velocity sensitivity but for a switch that of course does not matter and the pedal is really quite sturdy and has a nice feel.
 
What I would need to look into more is whether the TRS "expression pedal" input on the pK will accept the type of variable "rocker" type control that M-Audio rocker would put out. I'd have to look at the pK manual but I'm guessing that is standard for those TRS expression connections (thus making the "expression" title make a little more sense).
 
So yeah... that's cool. I don't really dig having to have the pK setup to do this stuff BUT it might work out better anyway because I could also map the pads to turn on/off various effects or even trigger loops/samples as I play by just reaching out with my pick hand for a second to hit the buttons. Then adjust the envelope for any lag afterward.
 
The stomp acts as the primary switch for distortion on/off.
 
It only has ONE input though so if I got the rocker it would be an either or situation.
 
Still interesting to consider and actually gives me a stomper "RIGHT NOW" if I need (which I do... and if the pK won't be a prick about it).
 
Thanks.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/22 14:51:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BobF 2015/11/23 11:13:48
I have owned one of those Behringer FCB1010 MIDI pedal boards for close to 10 years now, and I used it all the time for gigging, both for controlling guitar amp sims and for changing keyboard presets.
 
It has worked faithfully and flawlessly since day 1, and I LOVE it.
 
In addition to a REALLY good price, and good reliability, it has 2 continuous controller pedals AND multiple banks each with 10 presets, so you can go to town with sounds.  (you can assign each pedal to control different things, which can change with every preset, if you want, for example one for volume and the other for wah wah.  Then the next preset could have one for delay and the other for volume, etc).
 
A really really really important and valued piece of gig gear for me since around 2004.

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Beepster
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/22 15:06:57 (permalink)
Hi, Bob. Thanks for the additional info. It does seem large foot controllers really are the only "proper" solution at this time but as noted are WAY overkill and if you saw my room (and spinal X-Rays) you'd understand why I'd prefer something smaller.
 
I think I should send a PM to Craig pointing to this thread. Maybe he can crawl up Gibson's butt to develop some more compact MIDI solutions. They seem to be always looking for new innovations to put out.
 
Cheers, bud.
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BobF
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/23 11:04:44 (permalink)
robert_e_bone
I have owned one of those Behringer FCB1010 MIDI pedal boards for close to 10 years now, and I used it all the time for gigging, both for controlling guitar amp sims and for changing keyboard presets.
 
It has worked faithfully and flawlessly since day 1, and I LOVE it.
 
In addition to a REALLY good price, and good reliability, it has 2 continuous controller pedals AND multiple banks each with 10 presets, so you can go to town with sounds.  (you can assign each pedal to control different things, which can change with every preset, if you want, for example one for volume and the other for wah wah.  Then the next preset could have one for delay and the other for volume, etc).
 
A really really really important and valued piece of gig gear for me since around 2004.




Bob - Do you have the upgraded ROM?  Is it necessary?

Bob  --
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#16
robert_e_bone
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/23 11:37:43 (permalink)
I looked at the ROM (EPROM?) upgrade years back, but if I recall correctly, it was to enable setting it like stomp-box functionality, rather than banks of presets.
 
I MUCH prefer to have it function as originally intended, with endless banks of presets, so I never bothered with the upgrade chip.  It also seemed rather intrusive to the device and rather beyond my limited ability to solder properly and all of that.
 
So, for ME, I skipped that upgrade altogether, and never looked back.
 
Bob Bone
 

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mettelus
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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/23 11:54:25 (permalink)
Hold the phone... a hardware manufacturer released an upgrade requiring an end-user to solder? That just seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

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Re: SIMPLE/sturdy/affordable MIDI rocker pedal/stomp controllers for Amp Sim control? 2015/11/23 14:44:42 (permalink)
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