SOANR PLAT: Gold Standard, lifetime updates. Who's next?

Predictions for competitors?
 
And what I mean is not subscription based DAWs. We're talking apples to apples as in licensed for (your lifetime).
 
I will say Studio One.
 
Reaper and Mixbus are priced a bit too low to facilitate it, IMO.

I think you are wrong bapu.  Not just from that recent locked thread but overall we are not keen on the subscription model or lifetime updates either. That has been made pretty clear to Presonus.  I think and hope everything just stays on the current path.  We are all really happy with the current situation.  It is way simpler.

And to be honest you could also be right. You just never know. They might figure out a way to give us lifetime updates and charge for other things like addons etc.. Who knows. I just get the vibe from being a bit closer to the forums that we are all pretty happy the way things are right now as they say.
 
I agree about Mixbus though. The amount they are wanting for M32C for example is a bit of an indicator.

bapu
And Reaper at non-commercial $60 for two full versions is dirt cheap.
 
I can imagine that a significant portion of user base is on that model.

It's not unusual to see a post somewhere where users have ditched DAWs like Cubase for Reaper.  There are developers who make a few updates and charge for a new version.  There is plenty of evidence that Reaper is constantly developed.  I still find working with midi annoying in Reaper.

double post.

Is that a gluten free double fudge brownie post? :P

Jeff,
 
For grins I just went to the Presonus forum and read that 4 page locked thread that got "out of hand". 
 
Really? "out of hand"?
 
Ok, *maybe* the last four posts but I thought it was an interesting read, (even though most "obervations" of CW's offer/announcement were a bit off the mark of what it actually is (IMO). I did not feel it was out of hand, with exception that the house rules is no profanity even if it was written as **** and **** and ****. 
 
 

May be someone has mentioned the following already, but I have not seen.
 
There are 2 generic examples for "Lifetime updates".
 
* The first is proved by 100s (if not 1000s) examples as very commercially successful. Lifetime update for big (and small) programs, and you do not even forced to pay a single cent initially! "Free to play" Online Games. Many of them exist for years and really significantly "updated" all that time.
 
* Every customer implicitly assume "Lifetime updates" for hardware. You do not usually see "you will get no new driver after 1 year". When that happens, people start complaining: "why there is no support for my VS700? I have paid a lot of money 5 years ago!". I mean everyone is implicitly expecting such lifetime updates and is very disappointed when the product is declared EOL.
Some companies, like RME, are providing quasi lifetime updates. And they are successful from all perspectives.
 
What I meas is that Cakewalk is far from the first who play "lifetime" game. But there should be something to get money from. The best and safest way is aging hardware (Apple) or binding "lifetime" to aging hardware (Microsoft). But "aging sound" strategy for FX/Synth can be used as well.

Sorry azslow3 but those examples aren't the same.
 
In the case of hardware, it doesn't matter if you use it for one day or you use it for 10 years - the profit is built into the initial purchase. The company invests no money in improving the hardware you purchased once you receive it. In addition, they ARE improving newer products in an attempt to entice you to buy more hardware.
 
As for games, they are deliberately built from day one on a pay to play model and it's all centered around micro-transactions. These are purchases so small as to be "no-brainers" individually, but the volume at which they sell them adds up to real money. 
 
To all reading this, please realize I am not saying this is how Cakewalk is or will be - I love the company and want nothing more than for them to be successful. I am not a naysayer on Cakewalk. I bought the lifetime and I'm loyal as ever. This is simply the reality of risks when going with a lifetime model, and it's very difficult if not impossible to manage even with the best of intentions and highest character. It just is.
 
I can tell you that Cakewalk used to count on me for an upgrade every version - what is that, something like $99 per year? I now paid my $99 fee for lifetime and they will probably see ZERO or very little money from me ever again. Why? I have Komplete Ultimate, most UAD stuff, Arturia V Collection, BFD 3, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Cake would have to have something very compelling to get me to spend more money, and most likely that money will go towards the development of additional products. The core product requires constant improvements to stay competitive and show value. If there is no revenue stream for that continued development, that will be a problem. Also, once you've given Cakewalk your lifetime upgrade, you are no longer a paying customer. Cakewalk is a great company with great people, but I'm telling you straight up that when it comes to business decisions, paying customers trump "non paying" customers in the prioritization department. When push comes to shove, money and resources get spent where money can be made. We as customers run the risk of being marginalized once we aren't paying any more money. How many updates do YOU expect to be made to the core engine in a given year to feel that you have gotten your money's worth? How much do you expect to be added to the product in a given year to feel you got your money's worth? What happens when Cakewalk wants to charge you for something that you feel SHOULD be included in Core? What happens when a bunch of people feel that the program isn't delivering on what they paid for?
 
Also, "lifetime" is a loooong time. I know of a company that offered "lifetime support" to a some clients in the early days. Eventually, the company moved to a model very much like Cakewalk's new model - where customers were paying monthly and support was rolled in with software updates. Customers used to pay for updates and got the free support. The new model did not accommodate that in process OR pricing. Feelings were hurt and exceptions had to be created for many customers. It ain't easy. Lots can happen in the future - a competitor might come up with a better and more creative option that causes you pain, but once you are committed to lifetime updates you lose a lot of your ability to be nimble and flexible with licensing and pricing.
 
Many of you did NOT want to move to Windows 10 as you like Windows 7. Microsoft always sunsets support for past OS's after a time - you want help and support you need to upgrade. A lifetime model NEEDS to work the same way; a company simply can't provide quality on support for every version forever. If a company produces an update that you don't want or can't run, do you complain that you are now no longer getting the benefit of your "lifetime" upgrade? Do you accept that you are out of the loop in getting updates until the situation changes? Do you go to a competitor?
 
Look, it is what it is. Enjoy what Cakewalk delivers and believe in the company (I do!) Just don't try to justify to all of us that this is a normal and healthy business practice with zero risk to each side. Cause it ain't. :)

cool. As I said, I want them to be successful. :)
 
And I would also like those life-time gluten free double-fudge brownies please! 

Not sure about your last statement there - yeah I know a few things about business since I run a good size company.
 
However Azslow - I use your control surface integration and I'm grateful for it and I respect you.  I'm not here to make enemies or cause distress. i respectfully disagree with you and I'll leave it at that.

Jeff Evans
I think you are wrong bapu.  Not just from that recent locked thread but overall we are not keen on the subscription model or lifetime updates either. That has been made pretty clear to Presonus.  I think and hope everything just stays on the current path.  We are all really happy with the current situation.  It is way simpler.

Jeff, there weren't many unique posters in that thread. Why would you assume they represent the total user base? As was stated in that thread, when a feature gets implemented that no forumites remember asking for. The answer is likely the 98% of users who don't bother with a forum account, requested it through surveys or contacting the company directly. To say that a few forum users agreeing means that no one wants something, seems a little misguided to me. I can't help but feel if Presonus put out the question, "Would you like us to offer lifetime updates pricing?" That you guys over there would be swimming in the same pool as us lot, in no time at all.
 
Also in that thread there seemed to be a prevailing assumption that Image Line make their money from everything but FL Studio. How do any of you know that? Don't get me wrong, I can see why people who are involved in small businesses with limited customer reach, would assume that. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if the opposite were true. And wouldn't that be the best pricing strategy of all? Make people think that you are practically giving your product away and they'll buy tier upgrades and synths just to support such a thoughtful company. Who aren't interested in profits. Pfffftttt! Totally forgetting that they are a business. And whilst that business might be prepared to accept that one of its divisions doesn't quite hit the same profit margins as the rest of the product lines. They would surely be pricing it so their predicted minimum customer numbers, pay for the development of that product and more.
 
Now one more question for you, what do you mean, "It is way simpler?" What could be simpler than lifetime updates? I know my DAW-life has become so complicated since hitting 'purchase' on that one, haha!

smallstonefan
Since you asked... I think lifetime updates are a business mistake and I don't see others jumping at the opportunity to follow.

Image Line has been doing it.  It's been voted as the most popular DAW and the amount of demos downloaded are enormous.  The same issue you brought up has been discussed many times in their forum.
 
BTW this Cakewalk offer is a limited time.  I've not heard what happens after Aug. 31.

bapu
I did not feel it was out of hand, with exception that the house rules is no profanity even if it was written as **** and **** and ****.

Bapu, would you say "****," to the Pope?...

Haha, what a lame excuse to lock a thread! People are writing self-censored curse words and that's why we're locking it. (Pfffft!) Oh and also if anyone makes a new thread on this topic, there'll be consequences!

Could they be any more transparent?