benjaminfrog
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 477
- Joined: 11/5/2006
- Location: Minneapolis
- Status: offline
[ACTUALLY SOLVED] Digital distortion on low frequencies
I've recently been experiencing digital distortion on low frequencies, even though the overall level isn't clipping. I can reproduce it by recording myself walking heavily around the studio. It sounds like an 8 bit recording. At first I thought it was my mic pre, but I tried another interface and got the same result. Then I thought it might be my (desktop) computer, but I hooked up the interface to my laptop and got the same result. Finally, I tried another DAW... Crystal clear. I would assume it was something with the Lexington update, but my laptop is still on Ipswich and when I was on Ipswich on my desktop I didn't have the issue. My best guess now is that there was a recent Windows update that's interacting with how Sonar handles audio, but I really have no idea. Regardless, anybody else encountering this? Anybody figure out how to resolve it? Edit: Actual solution in post #16.
post edited by benjaminfrog - January 18, 16 9:04 AM
SONAR Platinum Windows 10 Pro x64 ASRock Z97 Pro4 i7-4790K 4.0GHz 32GB RAM Intel® HD Graphics 4600 RME Fireface UFX http://www.sewardsound.com/
|
jpetersen
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1499
- Joined: 7/11/2015
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 02, 16 9:08 AM
(permalink)
If you zoom right into the recorded waveform, what do you see? In my years using Sonar, it has produced the following types of behavior: Standard clipping (tops cut off), This is normal. Low frequencies may not be heard with mid-range monitors or headphones, but the clipping harmonics can. Ripdowns (little sections of the waveform go all the way to the negative side, usually when the positive side clips) This happened with ASIO up to X3e, IIRC Ripnulls (little sections on both sides of the waveform go to the center line) This is new with certain interface drivers.
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 11/6/2003
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 02, 16 10:01 AM
(permalink)
jpetersen Ripdowns (little sections of the waveform go all the way to the negative side, usually when the positive side clips) This happened with ASIO up to X3e, IIRC
Just FYI, this can still happen if the digital audio clips (e.g., interface level too high when recording).
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 11/6/2003
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 02, 16 10:02 AM
(permalink)
benjaminfrog I've recently been experiencing digital distortion on low frequencies, even though the overall level isn't clipping. I can reproduce it by recording myself walking heavily around the studio. It sounds like an 8 bit recording. At first I thought it was my mic pre, but I tried another interface and got the same result. Then I thought it might be my (desktop) computer, but I hooked up the interface to my laptop and got the same result. Finally, I tried another DAW... Crystal clear. I would assume it was something with the Lexington update, but my laptop is still on Ipswich and when I was on Ipswich on my desktop I didn't have the issue. My best guess now is that there was a recent Windows update that's interacting with how Sonar handles audio, but I really have no idea. Regardless, anybody else encountering this? Anybody figure out how to resolve it?
What happens if you bypass the effects (type E) or increase the latency?
|
benjaminfrog
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 477
- Joined: 11/5/2006
- Location: Minneapolis
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 02, 16 4:08 PM
(permalink)
Hi, Folks. Thanks for your responses. The audio isn't clipping. It never hits 0 dBFS. The only effect going is IK's ARC room correction plugin on the master buss. I don't hear any distortion when monitoring while recording, but the distortion is getting printed to the clip. Here's a screenshot from RX (never added an image to a post, hope this works). You can see the bizarro harmonics that are being generated. Edit: Can't figure out how to insert the image, but here's a link to it: https://drive.google.com/...p9e_6MKcWVMSDVuOVpmZ00
post edited by benjaminfrog - January 02, 16 4:30 PM
SONAR Platinum Windows 10 Pro x64 ASRock Z97 Pro4 i7-4790K 4.0GHz 32GB RAM Intel® HD Graphics 4600 RME Fireface UFX http://www.sewardsound.com/
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 11/6/2003
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 02, 16 6:37 PM
(permalink)
Maybe some process in the computer is interfering with the recording process? I had something somewhat similar happen when recording to an outboard drive connected to the motherboard's USB port, although it was more like clicks and pops. When I installed a USB port PCIe card and connected to that, the problem went away. Have you disabled any of those "HD" graphics drivers that install with video card software. or checked the performance with Latency Mon to see if anything weird is happening with your system? Also, what happens if you bypass ALL effects and increase the latency? Inquiring minds want to know...not because your computer/interface isn't capable of low latency operation, but because it might help reveal whether something is hogging the computer's CPU.
|
eph221
Max Output Level: -28.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4665
- Joined: 12/22/2014
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 02, 16 7:34 PM
(permalink)
Craig is right. Same thing happened to me. Culprit was nvidia driver. Discovered,as he said with latency mon.
|
benjaminfrog
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 477
- Joined: 11/5/2006
- Location: Minneapolis
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 03, 16 7:06 AM
(permalink)
Thanks, Guys. Fortunately or unfortunately it's not happening now. I'll try your suggestions though, Craig, the next time it does. I'm also wondering if there might be an electrical issue or some other non-computer-specific cause, given that it was happening on both my desktop and my laptop and now it's not happening on either one. Anyway, thanks, everyone, for your input.
SONAR Platinum Windows 10 Pro x64 ASRock Z97 Pro4 i7-4790K 4.0GHz 32GB RAM Intel® HD Graphics 4600 RME Fireface UFX http://www.sewardsound.com/
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 11/6/2003
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 03, 16 9:32 AM
(permalink)
Glad it's working for now, but please check out the Friday Tip of the Week for Week 35 for info on how to remove pernicious/unneeded drivers that degrade performance.
|
eph221
Max Output Level: -28.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4665
- Joined: 12/22/2014
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 03, 16 1:08 PM
(permalink)
A bad ADAT Cable, or connection can cause strange things as well.
|
benjaminfrog
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 477
- Joined: 11/5/2006
- Location: Minneapolis
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 05, 16 7:38 AM
(permalink)
Anderton Glad it's working for now, but please check out the Friday Tip of the Week for Week 35 for info on how to remove pernicious/unneeded drivers that degrade performance.
Thanks for the tip, Craig. I had previously disabled the non-audio-interface audio drivers on my system, but they were enabled again. I'm guessing this happened when I upgraded to Windows 10 last fall, but I don't know for sure. I also installed and ran Latency Mon, per your previous suggestion, and did make a system tweak based on the results of that. So far, the weird digital distortion hasn't returned. Fingers crossed!
SONAR Platinum Windows 10 Pro x64 ASRock Z97 Pro4 i7-4790K 4.0GHz 32GB RAM Intel® HD Graphics 4600 RME Fireface UFX http://www.sewardsound.com/
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 11/6/2003
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 05, 16 12:27 AM
(permalink)
Let us know if your luck holds so the thread can be marked "solved."
|
benjaminfrog
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 477
- Joined: 11/5/2006
- Location: Minneapolis
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 07, 16 7:56 AM
(permalink)
Yeah, the problem hasn't returned. I wish I knew, specifically, what the culprit had been, but I'll add "solved" to the title.
SONAR Platinum Windows 10 Pro x64 ASRock Z97 Pro4 i7-4790K 4.0GHz 32GB RAM Intel® HD Graphics 4600 RME Fireface UFX http://www.sewardsound.com/
|
benjaminfrog
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 477
- Joined: 11/5/2006
- Location: Minneapolis
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 08, 16 6:02 PM
(permalink)
SONAR Platinum Windows 10 Pro x64 ASRock Z97 Pro4 i7-4790K 4.0GHz 32GB RAM Intel® HD Graphics 4600 RME Fireface UFX http://www.sewardsound.com/
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 11/6/2003
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 08, 16 6:50 PM
(permalink)
benjaminfrog Yeah, the problem hasn't returned. I wish I knew, specifically, what the culprit had been, but I'll add "solved" to the title.
When latency is on the edge, all kinds of weird things are possible.
|
benjaminfrog
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 477
- Joined: 11/5/2006
- Location: Minneapolis
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 18, 16 8:50 AM
(permalink)
The problem did return, even though the HD drivers were disabled. I believe, however, I have found the actual culprit: Remove DC Offset During Record. This morning while recording I noticed the distortion was back. I double-checked to make sure the HD drivers were still disabled. I disconnected from the internet. Turned off my anti-virus. Stopped the Search service. Anything I could think of. Nothing resolved it. Then, on a hunch, I disabled Remove DC Offset During Record. NO DISTORTION!!! I then re-enabled it... distortion! So, although I'd still like to figure out what's causing the DC offset, I at least now know what's causing the distortion and how to resolve it. Thanks, Everybody, for your input. Glad to finally be done with this one.
SONAR Platinum Windows 10 Pro x64 ASRock Z97 Pro4 i7-4790K 4.0GHz 32GB RAM Intel® HD Graphics 4600 RME Fireface UFX http://www.sewardsound.com/
|
PeteL
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 168
- Joined: 12/15/2013
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 18, 16 9:27 AM
(permalink)
See related thread - http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3337455 Apparently Remove DC Offset on Record has some issues! I submitted the issue to Cakewalk back in December as CWBRN-42851. I actually looked at your thread early on but it didn't seem immediately related. But the solution is the same. :-)
post edited by PeteL - January 18, 16 10:43 AM
|
benjaminfrog
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 477
- Joined: 11/5/2006
- Location: Minneapolis
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 18, 16 10:11 AM
(permalink)
Hi, PeteL. Thanks for the additional information. I get a runtime error when clicking on the link in your post, however, and can't get to the other thread.
SONAR Platinum Windows 10 Pro x64 ASRock Z97 Pro4 i7-4790K 4.0GHz 32GB RAM Intel® HD Graphics 4600 RME Fireface UFX http://www.sewardsound.com/
|
PeteL
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 168
- Joined: 12/15/2013
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 18, 16 10:31 AM
(permalink)
Oooops! I somehow got a period in where there shouldn't be. Try again, I fixed the link.
|
benjaminfrog
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 477
- Joined: 11/5/2006
- Location: Minneapolis
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 18, 16 11:18 AM
(permalink)
PeteL!!! Yes, that's my experience as well. I've only ever encountered it when recording two mics simultaneously on mono tracks.
SONAR Platinum Windows 10 Pro x64 ASRock Z97 Pro4 i7-4790K 4.0GHz 32GB RAM Intel® HD Graphics 4600 RME Fireface UFX http://www.sewardsound.com/
|
PeteL
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 168
- Joined: 12/15/2013
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 18, 16 11:38 AM
(permalink)
Darn - I wish I had replied to your thread when you first posted it even though it didn't sound like the same issue. I could have saved you some time and trouble.
|
benjaminfrog
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 477
- Joined: 11/5/2006
- Location: Minneapolis
- Status: offline
Re: Digital distortion on low frequencies
January 18, 16 12:26 AM
(permalink)
No worries! I'm just happy to have a workaround now. Hope Cake fixes this soon.
SONAR Platinum Windows 10 Pro x64 ASRock Z97 Pro4 i7-4790K 4.0GHz 32GB RAM Intel® HD Graphics 4600 RME Fireface UFX http://www.sewardsound.com/
|