easyjoey
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SOLVED - Harware Problem * MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before.
OK, I am very frustrated with a new problem that presented itself tonight. I am running X1b. I set up two midi tracks. Track 1's output is going to port 4 (access virus) and I recorded a simple scale. It plays back normally. When I add a second midi track and assign it to port 3 (Roland sound module) the midi from track 1 triggers the Roland! I have NO midi sequence on track#2! Why is the midi from a seperate track with seperate outputs being triggered on this new track? In addition, if I play track 1 and try to record something on track 2, the midi data from track 1 is getting recorded to track 2. Now I have been doing this a long time and would like to think I know what I am doing but this is driving me crazy. I have rebooted several times and this keeps happening. Can anyone help me? Thanks for your time. Joe
post edited by easyjoey - 2011/04/19 12:33:55
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HumbleNoise
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Re:MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before. PLEASE HELP
2011/04/07 22:42:16
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Joe check the input echo button, it's the one that lights up green when activated. Try it a couple different ways and see if that doesn't change anything. Are you new to Sonar? Don't mean that in a bad way but are you setting up your MIDI and Audio tracks from the insert synth menu? Are you using a simple instrument track? Which will hide the separate MIDI and Audio tracks? You can use the inspector to check inputs and outputs. Or are you using separate MIDI and audio tracks? I'm asking because just 'adding a second MIDI track' won't necessarily behave like other DAWS and just play another instrument. Perhaps try 'inserting' each syth with a different instrukent and see of you don't the behavior you want. If you're a long time Sonar user then this is just some patronizing BS and may not be of any help. Just read this part of your post - "Now I have been doing this a long time and would like to think I know what I am doing" I can see you've Sonar for a while so my advice may be a bit lame. All I know is that when stuff like this happens to me it's usually a great big doh! moment when I discover my user error. Let us know of you get it figured.
post edited by HumbleNoise - 2011/04/07 22:54:50
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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easyjoey
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Re:MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before. PLEASE HELP
2011/04/07 22:43:53
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Larry,
Thanks but I tried every possible combination that I could think of and it made no difference.
I can't understand why the midi of one track is triggering sounds on a seperate track....
Joe
www.soundcloud.com/angryredplanet Sonar Platinum, Core i7 950, 6 gig RAM, Win7 64, Echo Layla 24 PCI sound card, MOTU 8x8 / Moog Voyager / Moog Sub37 / Access Virus B / Access Virus TI2 Polar / Roland V-Synth / Elektron Analog Four / DSI Tempest / DSI Pro 2 / Waldorf Q / Roland XV-3080
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HumbleNoise
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Re:MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before. PLEASE HELP
2011/04/07 22:50:29
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I added a bit to my post Joey. Any luck?
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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js516
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Re:MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before. PLEASE HELP
2011/04/08 00:13:28
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Check your midisport, it may have gone into patchbay mode and is now echoing midi to all outputs. You will need to exit sonar and fire up the midisports' PC editor to see what happened to the internal routing of the Midisport. It goes into this mode sometimes when you power up the midisport before the PC. Beware: my midisport started acting that way before it failed. It would just sit there with a blinking "PC" led and I'd have to power cycle it until it detected the USB connection. Eventually it just stopped detecting the USB altogether and although I can recieve/send midi to/from the PC, it was "stuck" in patchbay mode, echoing the midi messages to all ports. I switched to a MOTU 128 and never looked back. ;)
post edited by js516 - 2011/04/08 00:24:06
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before. PLEASE HELP
2011/04/08 02:07:51
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HumbleNoise, IIUC, I think the OP is using hardware synths, so Simple Instrument Tracks and inserting synths are not possible.
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brundlefly
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Re:MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before. PLEASE HELP
2011/04/08 02:42:51
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Check your midisport, it may have gone into patchbay mode and is now echoing midi to all outputs +1 I don't know anything about the MIDISport, but before I was halfway through the post, I was looking for the MIDI hardware in the signature, because SONAR cannot do what was described without help from misconfigured or malfunctioning MIDI hardware.
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Skyline_UK
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Re:MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before. PLEASE HELP
2011/04/08 03:49:27
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There was a long-standing bug in old Sonar referred to as MIDI-leak and your symptoms or redolent of this. I've had the same thing happen on rare occasions where my Roland Fantom X6 does not play the correct patch sent to it by Sonar. It's concerning if this is still around in X1b. I haven't encountered it yet but like other people I'm still climbing the 'North face of the Eiger' learning curve... ;o) Edit: This is an extract from Computer Music magazine's Jan 11 review of Sonar X1: "Continued Concerns: If you're a heavy MIDI user, you may have encountered the dreaded MIDI 'crosstalk' bug, whereby Sonar seems unable to distinguish between its own MIDI inputs. The result of this problem is that MIDI data leaks between inputs, controllers and tracks. This has been known about for some time, yet it remains an issue in Sonar X1 - we encountered it ourselves while reviewing the software." The X1B patch list of fixes included something called: "SONAR can now record correctly from multiple MIDI ports (MIDI cross talk)" so your post might indicate that something is still awry here.
post edited by Skyline_UK - 2011/04/08 04:01:49
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brundlefly
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Re:MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before. PLEASE HELP
2011/04/08 10:36:42
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Skyline_UK
There was a long-standing bug in old Sonar referred to as MIDI-leak and your symptoms or redolent of this. I've had the same thing happen on rare occasions where my Roland Fantom X6 does not play the correct patch sent to it by Sonar. It's concerning if this is still around in X1b. I haven't encountered it yet but like other people I'm still climbing the 'North face of the Eiger' learning curve... ;o)
Edit: This is an extract from Computer Music magazine's Jan 11 review of Sonar X1:
"Continued Concerns: If you're a heavy MIDI user, you may have encountered the dreaded MIDI 'crosstalk' bug, whereby Sonar seems unable to distinguish between its own MIDI inputs. The result of this problem is that MIDI data leaks between inputs, controllers and tracks. This has been known about for some time, yet it remains an issue in Sonar X1 - we encountered it ourselves while reviewing the software."
The X1B patch list of fixes included something called: "SONAR can now record correctly from multiple MIDI ports (MIDI cross talk)" so your post might indicate that something is still awry here. The MIDi crosstalk bug as it relates to physical ports involved only like-channel inputs from different ports. The OP's issue involves output being routed incorrectly, and the symptoms are not at all consistent with the MIDI crosstalk bug, which did not affect live input or playback, and caused truncated notes when recording input from two controllers at once, not data from an existing track being recorded on another. I am certain that this is a 3rd-party software/hardware/firmware issue.
post edited by brundlefly - 2011/04/08 11:41:34
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konradh
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Re:MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before. PLEASE HELP
2011/04/08 11:39:14
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Don't kill me for asking, but could you possibly have set the MIDI Input rather than Output on the misbehaving track? Probably not, but usually when I am frustrated for days the problem is something that is so simple I overlooked it--hiding in plain sight and all that. Again, not saying you would mistake like this, but I certainly would. 
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SilkTone
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Re:MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before. PLEASE HELP
2011/04/08 13:07:00
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The original "MIDI crosstalk bug" had everything to do with MIDI outputs bleeding into the wrong ports. It was Cakewalk that decided to turn it into something else so that they can claim it has been fixed. See this and this thread that talks about this issue. Notice the problem is always the outputs of MIDI tracks bleeding into the wrong places. The bad news for the OP is that Noel himself has made it clear he doesn't think a bug that causes MIDI events to bleed all over unrelated ports to be important enough to fix anytime soon, which is why it still hasn't been fixed since logged as CWBRN-1336 more than two years earlier (that is about 8 releases/patches ago). Good luck to the OP.
post edited by SilkTone - 2011/04/08 13:09:04
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brundlefly
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Re:MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before. PLEASE HELP
2011/04/08 13:30:13
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SilkTone
The original "MIDI crosstalk bug" had everything to do with MIDI outputs bleeding into the wrong ports. Not track outputs. Your issue was with synths that generate MIDI output, and present virtual ports to SONAR for routing it. The OP is talking about a MIDI track driving a hardware synth via a physical MIDI port to which the track is not assigned and having one track record the output of another via physical port assignments. This is a totally different scenario. I've been very sympathetic with you about this Synth Output Crosstalk issue over the preceding months and years, and appreciate your efforts to help get all the manifestations of MIDI Crosstalk fixed, but this is one case where I think it's pretty clear this manifestation of MIDI Crosstalk is not relevant, and your posting this is just muddying the waters to the detriment of the OP getting his issue resolved.
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SilkTone
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Re:MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before. PLEASE HELP
2011/04/08 13:44:21
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@brundlefly
OK, you might be right. My feeling is that the issue with crosstalk within Sonar's MIDI implementation could affect multiple areas of functionality (track outputs vs VSTi outputs, etc - they could be sharing the same codepaths), so I won't be surprised if what the OP is seeing is a manifestation of this same underlying bug. I guess my point is that unfortunately CW doesn't consider such MIDI routing bugs important enough to fix, so in that regard he might be in the same boat as me.
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easyjoey
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Re:MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before. PLEASE HELP
2011/04/19 12:06:44
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OK guys, I have been so disgusted with this problem that I just stepped away for a bit. What I did was buy a MOTU 128 beacuse someone on here mentioned they had the same problem with there M Audio Midiman 8x8 before it died. Well that has seemed to solve my problem. This was not a software or cakewalk problem afterall but a hardware problem.
Thanks for everyones help and now, with a clear mind, I can get back to making music.
Joe
www.soundcloud.com/angryredplanet Sonar Platinum, Core i7 950, 6 gig RAM, Win7 64, Echo Layla 24 PCI sound card, MOTU 8x8 / Moog Voyager / Moog Sub37 / Access Virus B / Access Virus TI2 Polar / Roland V-Synth / Elektron Analog Four / DSI Tempest / DSI Pro 2 / Waldorf Q / Roland XV-3080
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SilkTone
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Re:MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before. PLEASE HELP
2011/04/19 12:22:16
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Good that you got it sorted out.
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brundlefly
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Re:MIDI problem. I have NEVER experienced this problem before. PLEASE HELP
2011/04/19 12:24:53
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Cool. You might want to update the thread title with "SOLVED - HARDWARE ISSUE" for posterity.
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