[SOLVED] Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing?

Author
THambrecht
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 867
  • Joined: 2010/12/10 06:42:03
  • Location: Germany
  • Status: offline
2017/08/26 11:39:52 (permalink)

[SOLVED] Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing?

Has anybody any idea which vst-plugin can pan-normalize - or has an idea which audio-software reads w64 and can pan-normalize?
 
I have 1400 hours of digitazed DAT cassettes (recordings of a broadcaster).
The problem is, that they are either very left- or very right-heavy. So I have to normalize the left and the right channel seperate.
Usually I do this outside SONAR with Steinberg Wavelab or Adobe Audition via Batch-Process or with the Utilities-Menue inside SONAR.
The problem is that the most files (audioclips) play 5 hours and are greater than 2GB and Adobe and Steinberg break the processing over 2GB, because they cannot write wav-files > 2GB - and cannot write w64.
The second problem is that the .w64 files inside the SONAR-audiofolder are not readable (are nor compatible) by Adobe and Steinberg - so I cannot do a Batch-Process outside SONAR.
Sound Forge can read this .w64 files inside SONAR-audiofolder, but has no way to pan-normalize.
There are a lot of strange tools that do a seperate left and right-normalizing - but only for small wav-files.
   
Has anybody any idea which vst-plugin can pan-normalize - or has an idea which audio-software reads w64 and can pan-normalize?
  
The last chance where to split ALL 1400 hours stereo-clip into two seperate tracks l + r, normalize them seperate and bounce them together. I don't want to do this. That would be a hard and unnecessary work.
 
 
 
post edited by THambrecht - 2017/08/26 19:20:50

We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ...

4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ...

(Germany)  http://www.hambrecht.de
#1

19 Replies Related Threads

    chuckebaby
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 13146
    • Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/26 12:07:19 (permalink)
    I've run in to the exact same problems my friend.
    What I typically do is a split mono track / normalize each one.
    Compression and Channel tools. Channel tools will allow you to manipulate some of the spatial. Compression will maintain the level.
     
    It all depends how bad it really is.
     
    I had a customer once who had a similar issue (The tape was so old/tape was dust).and refused to bake the tapes. they ruined one of my machines. Still hurts to talk about.

    Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
    Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
    Focusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
       
    #2
    savoy
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 148
    • Joined: 2015/02/13 09:22:03
    • Location: CA quebec
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/26 12:24:52 (permalink)
    process-audio-gain  can up to +18db on each side.
     
    martin
     
     
     

    (apologise for my english)
     
    sonar 5 std-m-audio windows xp quad-core pc
    JBL SPEAKER,RHODE NTK MIC.APEX 160
    #3
    THambrecht
    Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 867
    • Joined: 2010/12/10 06:42:03
    • Location: Germany
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/26 12:29:09 (permalink)
    However the recordings should not be changed, its only for archive.
    That DAT recorder was often wrong adjusted. So he records sometimes left louder than right, or right louder than left. L/R, and normalizing to -0,2dB  is the only thing we have to revise.
     
    By the way: Baking tapes has never worked. We have better ways.
     

    We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
    4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ...

    4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ...

    (Germany)  http://www.hambrecht.de
    #4
    THambrecht
    Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 867
    • Joined: 2010/12/10 06:42:03
    • Location: Germany
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/26 12:34:41 (permalink)
    savoy
    process-audio-gain  can up to +18db on each side.
    martin

     
    process-audio-gain does not normalize w64-files.

    We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
    4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ...

    4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ...

    (Germany)  http://www.hambrecht.de
    #5
    mettelus
    Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5321
    • Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
    • Location: Maryland, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/26 15:59:16 (permalink)
    If the left and right channels have identical content another option is to bounce to mono, then another back to stereo, but is manual.

    I personally would prefer the batch processing so would try splitting the track into clips known to be under 2GB in size (at a simple time interval). My version of SONAR will save them all as broadcast waves, but not reassemble the files (becomes manual again). I am not sure if the reassembly (mass import of broadcast wavs to a single track) was ever added.

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #6
    Base 57
    Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 249
    • Joined: 2014/12/26 16:30:14
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/26 17:40:36 (permalink)
    Process/Audio/Gain for the one side and then normalize is probably what savoy meant. However I think Channel Tools would be the best Sonar option.
    #7
    Brando
    Max Output Level: -47.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2776
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:47:20
    • Location: Canada
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/26 17:51:15 (permalink)
    Never used the feature but audacity can batch normalize left and right channels separately http://manual.audacitytea...dio_tracks_or_channels

    Brando
    Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper
    Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL
    ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
    #8
    THambrecht
    Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 867
    • Joined: 2010/12/10 06:42:03
    • Location: Germany
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/26 17:52:30 (permalink)
     
    mettelus
    If the left and right channels have identical content another option is to bounce to mono, then another back to stereo, but is manual.
    I personally would prefer the batch processing so would try splitting the track into clips known to be under 2GB in size (at a simple time interval). My version of SONAR will save them all as broadcast waves, but not reassemble the files (becomes manual again). I am not sure if the reassembly (mass import of broadcast wavs to a single track) was ever added.

     
    That does not work. When you split 5 hours in pieces for example for 1 hour (< 2GB) than you have 5 individual clips. And each clip will need various values for panning. Maybe clip 1 needs +2,4 dB for the left channel - and clip 2 need +2,9 dB for the left channel. Bouncing them to one clip will make a step of 0,5 dB at this point. We do not want that.
    I need to know which is the highest level left and the highest level right, then I can do this with "Gain" within SONAR.
    This are radiobroadcasts which must be archived.
     
    I hope that someone has written an vst-plugin that does pan-normalizing.
    There is also a vst-plugin like "Dynamik-Normalizer" that helps normalizing endless dialogs over hours >2GB which fluctuate in volume (speaker gets quieter and louder) - without compressing.
    https://github.com/lordmulder/DynamicAudioNormalizer
     
    I hope that someone has written such a vst-plugin for pan-normalizing. But probably only 3 people of the world need that plugin.
     
     

    We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
    4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ...

    4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ...

    (Germany)  http://www.hambrecht.de
    #9
    chuckebaby
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 13146
    • Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/26 17:59:48 (permalink)
    Im not sure how compression/limiting does not solve this. Then using Channel tools to help bring in stereo spectrum.
    Especially with something as simple as dialog. Your client wont even notice compression (with a 3db flux).
     

    Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
    Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
    Focusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
       
    #10
    interpolated
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 830
    • Joined: 2015/03/26 17:34:58
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/26 18:34:30 (permalink)
    A channel control should do it with Mid/Side control. Essentially if you reduce the side volume it will be perceived to be more mono.  I use VSL Powerpan, although I think Sonar has a channel width tool which essentially will do the same.
     

    I have computer stuff.
     
    https://soundcloud.com/sigmadelta
    #11
    THambrecht
    Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 867
    • Joined: 2010/12/10 06:42:03
    • Location: Germany
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/26 19:20:33 (permalink)
    I had the idea.
    Only "Sound Forge" can open the files in the audiofolder. Because there is any unknown incompatibility with Adobe Audition and Wavelab with the SONAR-created w64-files. That only applies to recorded w64-files in the audiofolder.
    So I created a batchjob in Sound Forge that opens hundreds of W64.files and resaves them (without doing anything) in the "right" format.
    Now Adobe can read this "repaired" files and does a pan-normalize via batch-process.
    Adobe also can trim the files at beginning and end. (Which has never done in SONAR since lightyears)
    After that I can open the 14 projects in SONAR, name the clips, and automate-export them via clip-export.
    In a few days the work is done, almost only with automation. Now the computer can do the work for itself the next days.
     
    Mid/side Control or Limiting is a NoGo because this manipulates the audio data. The audio (Dynamik) must NOT be changed. The original can not be changed.

    We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
    4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ...

    4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ...

    (Germany)  http://www.hambrecht.de
    #12
    mettelus
    Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5321
    • Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
    • Location: Maryland, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/26 22:16:00 (permalink)
    I may have missed something. Can your Audition open files >2GB and it was just not recognizing the w64 format?

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #13
    THambrecht
    Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 867
    • Joined: 2010/12/10 06:42:03
    • Location: Germany
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/27 10:38:27 (permalink)
    mettelus
    I may have missed something. Can your Audition open files >2GB and it was just not recognizing the w64 format?

     
    Adobe Audition can open wavefiles larger than 2GB and also very large w64-files. In this case I have files between 5 and 6 GB (recorded in SONAR as w64).
    The problem is, that SONAR saves the recordings in an incompatible format. It is w64, but incompatible to Adobe and Wavelab. But compatible to Sound Forge.
    Than Adobe says "blockheader is not recognized". So I cannot open this files directly in Adobe. This was the point I opened the w64-files in Sound Forge and resaved them. Now Sound Forge "repairs" the file and the blockheader is recognized and Adobe can read this files as well as Cakewalk.
    If this problem with the "unrecognized header" is up to SONAR or Adobe or Wavelab - is unknown.
     
     

    We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
    4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ...

    4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ...

    (Germany)  http://www.hambrecht.de
    #14
    interpolated
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 830
    • Joined: 2015/03/26 17:34:58
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/27 14:27:25 (permalink)
    Well here is a workaround. Configure Sonar to use Sound Forge as an external editor. This way you can jump back and forth between applications and save the final version through Sound Forge.
     

    I have computer stuff.
     
    https://soundcloud.com/sigmadelta
    #15
    THambrecht
    Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 867
    • Joined: 2010/12/10 06:42:03
    • Location: Germany
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/27 14:54:53 (permalink)
    interpolated
    Well here is a workaround. Configure Sonar to use Sound Forge as an external editor. This way you can jump back and forth between applications and save the final version through Sound Forge.

     
    Thank you. The only thing we need an external editor is pan-normalize. All other things we do within SONAR.
    Sound Forge is a very poor editor with very poor plugins. And has no funktion for seperate left + right normalize. We need Sound Forge ONLY to repair SONAR w64-files.
    By the way is Wavelab the only real "pan-normalizer" that normalizes per RMS. I hoped someone has written a plugin that does the same as Wavelab.

    We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
    4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ...

    4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ...

    (Germany)  http://www.hambrecht.de
    #16
    msorrels
    Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1025
    • Joined: 2003/11/08 02:04:59
    • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/27 19:04:26 (permalink)
    With Sound Forge you select the right channel, the use normalize, it will normalize just the selected data (in this case the right channel).  Then select the left channel and normalize again.
     
    There is no easy way a plugin can normalize audio.  VST plugins process a stream of audio, normalize requires access to the entire waveform.  A plugin normalizer would require some bizarre workflow and be very ugly at best.
     
     

    -Matt
     
    #17
    THambrecht
    Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 867
    • Joined: 2010/12/10 06:42:03
    • Location: Germany
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/27 21:42:58 (permalink)
    msorrels
    With Sound Forge you select the right channel, the use normalize, it will normalize just the selected data (in this case the right channel).  Then select the left channel and normalize again.
    There is no easy way a plugin can normalize audio.  VST plugins process a stream of audio, normalize requires access to the entire waveform.  A plugin normalizer would require some bizarre workflow and be very ugly at best.

     
    Thank you.
    I know there is no easy way for a pan-normalizer-plugin. But there is after all a plugin for "dynamik normalising" which also needs access to the whole data. It normalises the data dependent on the volumen - great for dialogs. A pan-normalizer-plugin would also be never a live-effect. Maybe I need to hire someone.
    I didn't knew this with Sound Forge. For the huge amount of data we are editing for radio broadcasts and film industry we need batch processes. And the batch-processor from Sound Forge has no way to pan-normalize. But the batch-processor has the possibility to load thousends of w64-files and re-save them to a compatible format for Adobe and Wavelab. At this point we do batch-processes with Wavelab or Adobe Audition. The two have just the most features for batch-processing.
    The cracking point is: Sonar openes the outside-processed projects without any problem.
    And SONAR is just the fastest editor and best software for the huge amount of data.
     
     

    We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
    4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ...

    4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ...

    (Germany)  http://www.hambrecht.de
    #18
    interpolated
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 830
    • Joined: 2015/03/26 17:34:58
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/27 22:15:40 (permalink)
    I could have sworn you could normalise by RMS in Sound Forge Pro. However I was told by others never to do this unless it was a final audio take.
     
    Been a long time since I used it and miss the metering options that comes with it.
     

    I have computer stuff.
     
    https://soundcloud.com/sigmadelta
    #19
    interpolated
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 830
    • Joined: 2015/03/26 17:34:58
    • Status: offline
    Re: Is there any vst-plugin or software for PAN-Normalizing? 2017/08/27 22:18:53 (permalink)
    Nevermind
     
     

    I have computer stuff.
     
    https://soundcloud.com/sigmadelta
    #20
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1